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Jung

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#1
http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/11/06/evolution.schools.ap/index.html

Wisconsin district to teach more than evolution

GRANTSBURG, Wisconsin (AP) -- School officials have revised the science curriculum to allow the teaching of creationism, prompting an outcry from more than 300 educators who urged that the decision be reversed.

Members of Grantsburg's school board believed that a state law governing the teaching of evolution was too restrictive. The science curriculum "should not be totally inclusive of just one scientific theory," said Joni Burgin, superintendent of the district of 1,000 students in northwest Wisconsin.

Last month, when the board examined its science curriculum, language was added calling for "various models/theories" of origin to be incorporated.

The decision provoked more than 300 biology and religious studies faculty members to write a letter last week urging the Grantsburg board to reverse the policy. It follows a letter sent previously by 43 deans at Wisconsin public universities.

"Insisting that teachers teach alternative theories of origin in biology classes takes time away from real learning, confuses some students and is a misuse of limited class time and public funds," said Don Waller, a botanist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Wisconsin law mandates that evolution be taught, but school districts are free to create their own curricular standards, said Joe Donovan, a spokesman for the state Department of Public Instruction.

There have been scattered efforts around the nation for other school boards to adopt similar measures. Last month the Dover Area School Board in Pennsylvania voted to require the teaching of alternative theories to evolution, including "intelligent design" -- the idea that life is too complex to have developed without a creator.

The state education board in Kansas was heavily criticized in 1999 when it deleted most references to evolution. The decision was reversed in 2001.

In March, the Ohio Board of Education narrowly approved a lesson plan that some critics contended opens the door to teaching creationism.
 

gehtfuct

HuGE
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Good topic. But,whats your point? Thats old news. Besides,isn't that what "Education" means? To seek further knowledge? Aside,as to what you think you know presently.
 

Jung

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#3
Last month the Dover Area School Board in Pennsylvania voted to require the teaching of alternative theories to evolution, including "intelligent design" -- the idea that life is too complex to have developed without a creator.
Religion has no place in public schools. That would be my point.
 

gehtfuct

HuGE
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junglizm said:
Religion has no place in public schools. That would be my point.
Separation of church and state. You're absolutely right.
Again,it's old news. Please make a point.

An exsample would be: Why did this old news spark your interest?
 

Jung

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#5
Yes the issue is old news, but this topic is new.
Wisconsin district to teach more than evolution

Saturday, November 6, 2004 Posted: 9:36 PM EST (0236 GMT)

It becomes clearer each day that seperation of church and state is only a myth. America really is jesus land. :rolleyes:
 

gehtfuct

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junglizm said:
Yes the issue is old news, but this topic is new.



It becomes clearer each day that seperation of church and state is only a myth. America really is jesus land. :rolleyes:
That sux.

I dont think Jesus sux. Just the thought of Blind Education.
Umm...Out of interest,and my own curiosity,what are your thoughts of Religion/Evolution?
 

Jung

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Some thoughts:

Wow, all this trouble and yet no one realized that creationism cannot be taught scientifically. :thumbsup:

I recently read about texas school book publishers who want to inject their opinion of marriage being between a man and a woman into the new texts? We are witnessing the creation of the very propoganda that has infested our own minds since our primary education. There's just no respect for truth anymore. (not that there ever was)

The double-standard that exists here is that, with the gay marriage debate, Christians (read: conservatives) want the sanctity of marriage (a religious rite, they argue) to be protected via the government; they don't want something like that (gay marriage; civil unions, etc.) forced upon them. They want their beliefs to be respected & protected from infringement. Yet, they lobby the government to force their own beliefs to be imposed upon a system which recieves funding from the government (state, local, & federal). Given that schools do exist that teach creationism (Catholic, private Christain), why force it down the throat of the public school systems? And, if you can't afford to send your children to these types of schools, I'm pretty sure you can attend religious services on a weekly basis (unfettered by academic curricula) cost-free!
It's good to know that religious groups have made hypocrisy and fascism their main objective as of late.:rolleyes:
gehtfuct said:
That sux.Umm...Out of interest,and my own curiosity,what are your thoughts of Religion/Evolution?
I don't think religion itself is bad, per say. I think greed and devious people have bastardized it through out the years. When you really get into religion today it seems a lot like a cult; there is a lot of brainwashing, guilt is used a tool to keep followers and followers are constantly trying to persecute those who don't fit into their idea of "good god fearing people." When religions stop trying to restrict and demonize anything and everything not like them, maybe I'll give them a bit more credit. Now that's not to say that blindly discriminate on christian or any religions, for that matter. Religion gives people a meaning in life and some people understand it's purpose, sadly most don't though.

My thoughts on evolution are just that. My lack of faith pretty much defaults me into a belief of evolution. I'm honestly not sure how or why we're here, nor can anyone be. In a choice between creationism and evolution, I have to side with science, as it's more tangible.
 

gehtfuct

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#8
junglizm said:
Some thoughts:

Wow, all this trouble and yet no one realized that creationism cannot be taught scientifically. :thumbsup:

I recently read about texas school book publishers who want to inject their opinion of marriage being between a man and a woman into the new texts? We are witnessing the creation of the very propoganda that has infested our own minds since our primary education. There's just no respect for truth anymore. (not that there ever was)

The double-standard that exists here is that, with the gay marriage debate, Christians (read: conservatives) want the sanctity of marriage (a religious rite, they argue) to be protected via the government; they don't want something like that (gay marriage; civil unions, etc.) forced upon them. They want their beliefs to be respected & protected from infringement. Yet, they lobby the government to force their own beliefs to be imposed upon a system which recieves funding from the government (state, local, & federal). Given that schools do exist that teach creationism (Catholic, private Christain), why force it down the throat of the public school systems? And, if you can't afford to send your children to these types of schools, I'm pretty sure you can attend religious services on a weekly basis (unfettered by academic curricula) cost-free!


I don't think religion itself is bad, per say. I think greed and devious people have bastardized it through out the years. When you really get into religion today it seems a lot like a cult; there is a lot of brainwashing, guilt is used a tool to keep followers and followers are constantly trying to persecute those who don't fit into their idea of "good god fearing people." When religions stop trying to restrict and demonize anything and everything not like them, maybe I'll give them a bit more credit. Now that's not to say that blindly discriminate on christian or any religions, for that matter. Religion gives people a meaning in life and some people understand it's purpose, sadly most don't though.

My thoughts on evolution are just that. My lack of faith pretty much defaults me into a belief of evolution. I'm honestly not sure how or why we're here, nor can anyone be. In a choice between creationism and evolution, I have to side with science, as it's more tangible.
Your retort on Religion is worthy of an A+
For Evolution you geht an F?
How is the theory of Evolution not based from the advent of Science?
 

Jung

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#9
gehtfuct said:
How is the theory of Evolution not based from the advent of Science?
I didn't imply anything of the sort. On the contrary, I stated:
In a choice between creationism and evolution, I have to side with science, as it's more tangible.
I agree that the theory of evolution comes from science; it would be called a hypothesis. I honestly don't know what to believe though. I've yet to find a theory that's accurate enough to put much faith in. Nothing has even come close to being definitive proof. I don't think anything will be proven before my deather either. I believe more along the lines of evolution, as it seems to better fit into the scheme of things. Through our technological evolution we've proved many things previously reguarded as religious phenomenon, through science. I believe that something will be proven some day, albeit no time soon. If I don't seem very clear in my explanation, it's because I'm not very clear on this subject. It's not something I think a lot about, find it fairly trivial actually.:)
 

_Kitana_

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Now teaching and preaching relgion is two diffrent things. Saying people of this faith believe that over 5,000 years ago.. blah blah blah...... is not saying its right or wrong. Its stating a fact.
 

Jung

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_Kitana_ said:
Now teaching and preaching relgion is two diffrent things. Saying people of this faith believe that over 5,000 years ago.. blah blah blah...... is not saying its right or wrong. Its stating a fact.
Again, but make sense this time please.
 

breakology

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On that note, some fucking PFC looked me in the face last week and said soemthing to the effect of "all life came from iraq because thats were the garden of eden was"
I believe my respose was something like "get your fundamentalist christian ass teh fuck away from me, NOW!" I was laughing my ass off also...
as you can tell, I was going for sensitive.
 
#13
This debate goes back a long way. However, I believe that creatism(sp?) shouldn't be taught in school because it does not belong there. It is a theory that God created us to be the image of himself. That is fine and dandy for those who want to go to church, or practice religion in their private housing. It does not have a place in the American Education System. The reason for this, is the fact that what is taught in science/biology stems from SCIENTIFIC DATA. This is what is taught in schools. They don't preach that man was once a monkey, but what they have shown is the evolution of animals over time, and then applying that knowledge to human beings.
 

MaxPower

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_Kitana_ said:
Now teaching and preaching relgion is two diffrent things. Saying people of this faith believe that over 5,000 years ago.. blah blah blah...... is not saying its right or wrong. Its stating a fact.
I think the point is that they'll teach only Christianity. Can you really picture them teaching from the Koran, or Torah?
In the old Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, they just "Taught" "not preached" their values in school.

Creationism is a religious matter and it has no place being formally taught in school. Unless you’re talking about the form in which people think that aliens created us; In which case is just pure crap.
I am however in favor of setting aside time for prayer or other form of reflection at the student's own discretion.
 

bigck3000

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Family Guy
Apparantly there is some about teaching the evolutionary thoery, that Gil Gerard went back in time and ejaculated into the primordial ooze.
They wont let them teach creationism in schools, they'll keep trying, but it will never become widespread enough to worry about
 

ILoveGOP!

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yeah im christian and im what you might call a "conservative ass hole" but i think that creationism should be kept out of schools.... we are a land of freedom and such, and i don't think anyone should be force fed my relifion, as no one should force feed me THEIR religion.... :thumbsup:
 

RetArt

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In my humble opinion religion should be teached as a philosofy or as a part of history, not as a different subject called "religion". As for many people it is a "way of life". I myself am not religious, but still my life is (maybe loosely, but still) based on christian moral.
Btw. Greetings from Finland.
 

icka

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ILoveGOP! said:
yeah im christian and im what you might call a "conservative ass hole" but i think that creationism should be kept out of schools.... we are a land of freedom and such, and i don't think anyone should be force fed my relifion, as no one should force feed me THEIR religion.... :thumbsup:
i am by far religious in anyway. however i believe school is about knowledge. cant we teach about creationism without "force feeding" our children? im strong on education and i believe religion should be explained in school. however i don't think it should be practiced in schools.
 

_Kitana_

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junglizm said:
Again, but make sense this time please.
I did its not my fault you could not understand it.

Teaching what diffrent people believe in helps to create understanding. By stating that a group of people have this theroy about how the earth was created, where on the otherside these people beileve this........ There is nothing wrong about it.

Its not preaching the word of God to anyone or even saying the bible is right. Its stating facts about a group of peoples faith and their therories. You have no problem with evolution being taught in school, then you should have no problem with this being taught in school either.
 

Jung

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#20
icka said:
cant we teach about creationism without "force feeding" our children? im strong on education and i believe religion should be explained in school. however i don't think it should be practiced in schools.
Have we forgotten that this country was founded on freedom of religion? Or do we simply not care about forcing our faith(opinions) on others? No matter what people may think; teaching religion in school will offend and "force feed" it upon someone.(Even one person is enough.) Do you really beLIEve that religion can be taught in school without being force fed or passionately encouraged?(That would imply that people aren't passionate about their faiths) Reguardless, church and state are seperate in this country, end of story. While many who colonized this land from Europe in the 1500s were of some Christian faith, the United States was not founded as, nor ever intended to be a Christian nation. The founders did understand and respect the role that 'god' played in some of the average citizen's life. However, they never wanted Christian doctrine to be the basis for US law. People want to cry about the constitution and our fore fathers when they feel they've lost something, but conveniently ignore their words when it benifits them. So, on that accord, I agree with you.
_Kitana_ said:
I did its not my fault you could not understand it.
Sorry, I got what you meant, but not because of the way you said it. Your choice of words, or lack there of, was fairly humorous.(as per usual)
_Kitana_ said:
Teaching what diffrent people believe in helps to create understanding. By stating that a group of people have this theroy about how the earth was created, where on the otherside these people beileve this........ There is nothing wrong about it.
Churches are for religious understanding and knowledge. They're free, just like public schools, and are there for that sole purpose. Also, see above. Too many people today want to bastardize the constitution to fit their opinion of what this country should be. Who the fuck are you do decide these things? Maybe when christians decide to stop discriminating against homosexuals, I'll feel differently about their wanting to be granted something.(in opposition of what this country was founded upon) But, I doubt it.
_Kitana_ said:
You have no problem with evolution being taught in school, then you should have no problem with this being taught in school.
Wrong, that's just your illogical opinion. I thought we were talking about science class. The study of evolution sprung from science. The very fact that it is largely still a 'theory' (think: hypothesis) suggests that science still investigates the "what, when, where, why and how" of the matter. Creationsim on the other hand . . . you either have faith that it is the truth, or you do not. To my knowledge, no evidence exists suggesting even the possibility of this occuring. Besides, the theory of evolution does not denounce the existence of a supreme being. For all we know, "s/he" set up the process.

I am far from anti-religious "period". I am however anti- religion and religious doctrine being legislated in such a way that every American is effected by it. Yours and anyone else's faith is between you (and them) and the respective god/s that apply. Your beLIEfs should not be forced upon me.

As I said in another thread on another forum, today's American Christian no longer seems to care about being righteous, they are far more concerned with appearing to be righteous. They wear bracelets that read "WWJD" (What Would Jesus Do?) but rarely, if ever seem to genuinely ask themselves that question, much less try to answer it.