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Headlines Banning Pit Bulls


Less Feeling-Tastes Great
I'm sure I'm probably a little under-active for a newb but I subscribe to the theory of not talking unless I can improve the silence.

But I'm going to more than make up for it here.

Settle we go...


Here in Chicago there has been a rash of Pit attacks.

Let me just say that statement is bullshit. Dogs bite people everyday. The media has chosen to shine their spotlight on pits in recent weeks, so of course all Pit Bulls are evil and should be destroyed.

I own a Pit Bull. He is the love of my life. I have owned many breeds over the years most recently a Rottie and I still own a Husky. My Pit is by far the most affectionate and docile of any of my dogs.

I'm sure it has to do with the way I trained him and the level of behavior that I expect from him (and manage him to)on a daily basis.

Do I treat him differently than my other dogs? Absolutely. He is not allowed to roam free in my fenced backyard, he is on a cable that doesn't reach the fence at any point.

He doesn't get walked as much as my other dogs either.


It's not because of him, it's because of you. It's because of your untrained children that run up to strange dogs with their hands out, or that like to throw rocks into people's yards.

Or worse, those of you that would snatch him and introduce him to a life of abuse and premature death. I treat him differently to protect him from you, not the other way around.

I'm tired your stares and "how dare you" looks so I keep him away from you. I refuse to give anyone an excuse to point their God-like finger at my baby and say "he must die".

Your talk of a ban is rediculous and will only serve to feed the irrational fear. It will keep responsible owners from raising loving, wonderful pets. Haven't we learned by now that making something illegal doesn't keep it out of the hands of "bad people"?

They are actually talking about dog owners carring dog insurance if they own a "high risk" breed.

Fuck them and fuck you.

The stains that make these dogs vicious certainly won't carry insurance. How many people drive without car insurance - isn't that a law?

What all these ass clowns don't realize is they are only making it worse. If they publicized vicious Pug attacks then all the fucking botched abortions would be out there buying and breeding Pugs.

Someone posted this on the Trib website made some good sense to go along with their proposed insurance...

"Zorn: How making people who have loser kids pay special insurance, how about people with SUVs having to have extra SUV coverage since they kill more people than regular cars, how about making all men have to pay an extra insurance premium and pay an extra fee to the city since men commit the majority of the murders here in Chicago?

Come to think of it; 100% of all murders committed in Chicago are committed by humans. I think we should ban humans; they are responsible for far more human deaths than dogs are.

It's time you take a look at what is really dangerous in this country and what the Media decides to be dangerous. That's right, the media decides pitbulls are dangerous and every time I have seen a story about a pitbulls getting abused they never mention that it is a pitbull; rarely when a pitbull saves someone’s life to they call it a pitbull but any breed can bite someone and the media immediately labels it a pitbull."

Well fucking said John.

I'm really starting to hate people.

Recently there was a story here that got national attention, it was about a bakery owner that posted a sign saying something to the effect that if they don't keep their kids under control they would be asked to leave.

A fucking men.

Yeah, yeah, I don't have kids so who am I to talk about parenting, you know what? Fuck you. I share the planet with you and I have a right not to listen to your brat throw a fucking tantrum because you have learned how to tune them out.

It's you that are the ones bitching about my dog.

If you promise to teach your kids how to act, then I promise that my dog won't shred your kid.

Unfortunately that statement isn't fair to my dog. He knows how to behave because I have trained him to behave. I respect your rights and I respect your place on this planet. So fuck off.

There are few things in life that get me this pissed off. Let me say, I love kids. Kids rock. This isn't me bashing kids. It's me putting my take on this situation in your face. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, that's not my purpose. It's just me grabbing the soap box.


Now here's the research. There are few things I dislike more than people that form extreme opinions without learning the subject.

Fatal Dog Attacks

CDC Study of Fatal Dog Attacks

NOTE: The statistics follow FATAL dog attacks. Yes the study shows that over 20 percent of the dogs were pit bulls or pit bull type dogs, but make sure you read the entire thing. Look at the bottom of the table detailing breed type, far more fatal attacks occur every year in the "unknown breed" category.

My dog has been glorified as a "killer", it's a status symbol. Until we stop this misconception, my dog will continue to have a bad name.

Dog Bite Statistics

Interesting excerpt from this site..."The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)"

After reviewing over 431 cases of fatal dog attacks it is apparent there is no single factor that translates in a lethal encounter between a person and a dog(s). A fatal dog attack is always the culmination of past and present events that include: inherited and learned behaviors, genetics, breeding, socialization, function of the dog, physical condition and size of the dog, reproductive status of dog, popularity of breed, individual temperament, environmental stresses, owner responsibility, victim behavior, victim size and physical condition, timing and misfortune.

While many circumstances may contribute to a fatal dog attack, the following three factors appear to play a critical role in the display of canine aggression towards humans;

1. Function of the dog - (Includes: dogs acquired for fighting, guarding/protection or image enhancement)

2. Owner responsibility - (Includes: dogs allowed to roam loose, chained dogs, dogs and/or children left unsupervised, dogs permitted or encouraged to behave aggressively, animal neglect and/or abuse)

3. Reproductive status of dog - (Includes: unaltered males dogs, bitches with puppies, children coming between male dog and female dog in estrus)

It is necessary to emphasize that a fatal dog attack is an exceptionally unusual event. Approximating 20 deaths per year in a dog population of 53 million yields an infinitesimal percent of the dog population (.0000004involved in a human fatality.

Many communities and cities believe that the solution to prevent severe and fatal dog attacks is to label, restrict or ban certain breeds of dogs as potentially dangerous. If the breed of dog was the primary or sole determining factor in a fatal dog attack, it would necessarily stand to reason that since there are literally millions of Rottweilers, Pit Bulls and German Shepherd Dogs in the United States, there would have to be countless more than an approximate 20 human fatalities per year.

Since only an infinitesimal number of any breed is implicated in a human fatality, it is not only unreasonable to characterize this as a specific breed behavior by which judge an entire population of dogs, it also does little to prevent fatal or severe dog attacks as the real causes and events that contribute to a fatal attack are masked by the issue of breed and not seriously addressed.

Pit Bulls in particular have been in a firestorm of bad publicity, and throughout the country Pit Bulls often bear the brunt of breed specific legislation. One severe or fatal attack can result in either restrictions or outright banning of this breed (and other breeds) in a community. While any severe or fatal attack on a person is tragic, there is often a tragic loss of perspective as to degree of dangerousness associated with this breed in reaction to a fatality. Virtually any breed of dog can be implicated in a human fatality.

From 1965 - 2001, there have been at least 36 different breeds/types of dog that have been involved in a fatal attack in the United States. (This number rises to at least 52 breeds/types when surveying fatal attacks worldwide). We are increasingly becoming a society that has less and less tolerance and understanding of natural canine behaviors. Breed specific behaviors that have been respected and selected for over the centuries are now often viewed as unnatural or dangerous. Dogs have throughout the centuries served as protectors and guardians of our property, possessions and families. Dogs have also been used for thousands of years to track, chase and hunt both large and small animals. These natural and selected-for canine behaviors seem to now eliciting fear, shock and a sense of distrust among many people.

There seems to be an ever growing expectation of a "behaviorally homogenized" dog - "Benji" in the shape of a Rottweiler. Breeds of dogs with greater protection instincts or an elevated prey-drive are often unfairly viewed as "aggressive or dangerous". No breed of dog is inherently vicious, as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans. The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.

It is important to emphasize that dogs bite today for the same reasons that they did one hundred or one thousand years ago. Dogs are no more dangerous today than they were a century or millennium ago. They only difference is a shift in human perception of what is and is not natural canine behavior and/or aggression and the breed of dog involved.

Examination of newspaper archival records dating back to the 1950’s and 1960’s reveal the same types of severe and fatal attacks occurring then as today. The only difference is the breed of dog responsible for these events. A random study of 74 severe and fatal attacks reported in the Evening Bulletin (Philadelphia, PA) from 1964-1968, show no severe or fatal attacks by Rottweilers and only one attack attributed to a Pit-Bull-type dog. The dogs involved in most of these incidents were the breeds that were popular at the time.

Over two thousand years ago, Plato extolled a basic understanding of canine behavior when he wrote "the disposition of noble dogs is to be gentle with people they know and the opposite with those they don’t know...." Recently, this fundamental principal of canine behavior seems to elude many people as parents allow their children to be unsupervised with unfamiliar dogs and lawmakers clamor to declare certain dogs as dangerous in response to an attack.

Any dog, regardless of breed, is only as dangerous as his/her owner allows it to be.

Addressing the issue of severe and fatal dog attacks as a breed specific problem is akin to treating the symptom and not the disease. Severe and fatal attacks will continue until we come to the realization that allowing a toddler to wander off to a chained dog is more of a critical factor in a fatal dog attack than which breed of dog is at the end of the chain.

Only when we become more knowledgeable, humane and responsible in our treatment of dogs can we hope to prevent future tragedies.



a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
I'll admit that your post has given me more to think about re: banning pit bulls. For a time I was for the idea but as I think of it I'm not so sure it's a solution.

However, having worked at a number of animal practices (read that as I was a vet tech for a while) I can tell you that by and large pit bulls ARE more dangerous than other breeds when they loose it. One vet I worked at refused to work with pits outright. The other would, assuming they were muzzled when they came in. Not because they're any more agressive than any other dog. But because that when they snap, they do so more violently than other breeds. A pitbull can quite easily sever a human arm with their jaws. And once that dog has come to the conclusion that he needs to do that there is little that can be done to stop him. A rottie can hurt someone easily, a pit can kill someone easily.

Compounded with that is that we don't know the dogs lineage. Pit Bulls were mainly bread to be fighters which gives them a more aggressive personality anyway. Combine that with improper breeding practices and you can easily end up with a Pit Bull that just looses it one day. Of course the same can be said for any breed of dog, however with pits being bred for their "tempers" anyway, they're a bit more on the edge to begin with.

But that said, your post gave me pause to think. Yes, it really does lie in the hands of the owner to control their dogs. However, if a large number of owners won't take responsibility, or worse, train their dogs to be violent, then it becomes a burden of any and all owners of that breed.

Am I waffling? Yes. Because I do believe the Pit Bull, along with certain other breeds to be more dangerous than your average dog. And honestly, I do not know the best way to handle that. Banning and insurance won't work because those options just affect the people that are following the rules anyway.

The study you posted shows pit bulls and the like making up 20% of fatal dog attacks. That's not a small percentage. That's a very important number. That's 1 in 5 people killed by dogs were killed by pit bulls. That alone makes it a dangerous breed. That may be because of how the breed is being used currently but that doesn't change the fact that the breed is dangerous.

I'm sorry but no. If you own a dog that attacks someone it's largely your responsibility. If that kid runs up hands out and your dog bites that's on you. Sure, the kid should have done what he/she did but it's on you anyway. Regardless of the fact that we may want our dogs to be somethign their not, it's still on you. And if your dog nips and scares the child that's fine. But you chose to have a bread that's known more for going off the deep end in that situation. They don't nip. They bite.


Less Feeling-Tastes Great
I agree with you that there is no easy answer. I just wanted to represent the other side of the argument.

My Rott passed away last year, but before that I had a Rott, Husky and Pit. All of which rank highly in the CDC's study.

I never got any of them specifically because I wanted a dog of a particular breed. We crossed paths and I fell in love and that was that.

I don't expect to "win" anyone over to my side. It's not my intent. I just want to represent, as it were, for responsible and trained owners out there.

I am fully aware of what my dog is capable of and I take precautions to prevent situations where he will attack, and sometimes it's very difficult for me. "They" don't know my dog like I do (and I understand the reaction, I wouldn't approach a strange dog either). He doesn't curl up and sleep with them every night and insist on having his share of the blanket and his own pillow. It hurts me to muzzle him to take him to the vet (which I do voluntarily) but it's for his protection. It hurts me because it only feeds the stigma. But I refuse to put him in a situation where his reaction would doom him.

I have NO problem with rational people that don't like my dog, I personally don't see how people can keep 15' constrictors as pets, I think that's dangerous. But you know what? If you have a 15' snake as pet - more power too you - I'm just not going anywhere near your place. The people that don't like my dog and may not like me for having him, but that keep their mouth shut and stay away are all good in my book. The people I have a problem with are the finger waggers and idiots that shout from their soap boxes about how I'm a bad person and my dog should be destroyed without really knowing what they are talking about.

I just sincerely hope they realize what a rediculous answer banning is.

Years from now there will be another "it" breed, just like Rotts were years ago, then all the little gang bangers will keep and fight them, and responsible owners of that breed will speak out just I'm doing.

Too bad we can't selectively breed all the morons out.

Blame the owners, not the dogs.


Theoretical Realist
I'll add my 2 cents in here briefly, as you two have stated most of the pertinent points already. The overwhelming responsibility lies with the owner of the dog. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners has alot of truth to it. Owners of large breed dogs must have them trained properly to be out in public with them, you cannot rely on people being intelligent enough to restrain themselves or their children from approaching an unfamiliar dog.

That said, I will agree with Zero on the point that PitBulls can be very docile, freindly dogs. I know several who are exactly that. I have also known a Standard Poodle (the larger breed, not the toy type) that was absolutely vicious. So to villify one or two breeds is to be very misinformed. Excellent research and links by the way Zero.


a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
tw33k said:
I'll add my 2 cents in here briefly, as you two have stated most of the pertinent points already. The overwhelming responsibility lies with the owner of the dog. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners has alot of truth to it. Owners of large breed dogs must have them trained properly to be out in public with them, you cannot rely on people being intelligent enough to restrain themselves or their children from approaching an unfamiliar dog.

That said, I will agree with Zero on the point that PitBulls can be very docile, freindly dogs. I know several who are exactly that. I have also known a Standard Poodle (the larger breed, not the toy type) that was absolutely vicious. So to villify one or two breeds is to be very misinformed. Excellent research and links by the way Zero.
Actually it's funny but the Standard Poodle was bred as a guard dog so they have a lot of the same instincts as the Dobermans.

I'm not againt Pit Bulls per say. And I agree that we should selectively breed owners. If you take the time with your dog and know the risks and do your best to minimize the risks that's all you can do. I own GreyHounds... very prey driven dogs. And I have to take precautions out in publick because any small furry critter is prey to them.

But yeah, you did an excellent job of posting the other side of the issue. It's made me rethink my stance on the bans.


Theoretical Realist
UberSkippy said:
Actually it's funny but the Standard Poodle was bred as a guard dog so they have a lot of the same instincts as the Dobermans.
Guard dogs? I never heard that, I actually learned something on WTF.


Banned - What an Asshat!
I am completely against the bans. I've had my share of dog attacks, and NONE of them were by pit-bulls. (thank god) One was a golden retriever, just suddenly decided that my arm was something to chew on. I ended up getting 15 stitches on various places on my arm.

I'm completely aware that pit-bulls are a breed for fighting, and they are capable of easily killing a human. However, it is also true that it's a bad owner and not a bad dog. Anyway, I now end up reinforcing Zero's and tw33k's opinions.


I'm just really nice.
They can pry my Al from my cold dead hands.

BTW: This is why I only buy mutts. We've actually been dropped by one insurance company because we had pit bulls...then we told the one we moved to that we had cattle dogs. :happysad:


I found this on Craigslist earlier this morning, so I was a bit surprised to see this thread now. It's poorly written, but the guy actually knows what he's talking about.

I'm sorry you are frightened of my dogs and are trying to have them
killed because they are pit bulls.

I'm sorry you lack the understanding of this breed's true history,
gentleness with people, wonderful temperament, intelligence and
behavioral conformation. I'm sorry you won't read the ATTS stats
regarding our breed's true temperament, putting it in the top four
for temperament, scoring better than breeds like Golden Retrievers,
and Cocker Spaniels

I'm sorry that you side with and protect animal abusers by marking
the breed of dog, and not the irresponsibility of the owner. I'm
sorry that by your logic I could steal a car, run some people over
with it and then you can blame the make of car for the accident, as I walk free.

I'm sorry you generalize one breed of dog with one group of people.
I'm sorry you can't see the love and determination that many often
highly educated, non-criminal and "normal" types of people show
towards this breed and the great personal sacrifices that they make
to take care of their dog responsibly.

I'm sorry you cannot go into the shelters and see the hundreds of
abandoned and abused pitbulls, dying only for the inane "crime" of
being born the breed they are
. I'm sorry you cannot see the look of
disappointment in their eyes as someone walks by their kennel, and
refuses to consider adopting them based on an ill-educated, fear-mongering
reporter. I'm sorry that you cannot be there when the
animal looks at a human for the last time, and in spite of having been
betrayed by all humans they have met, their tail still wags as someone
approaches with the syringe of Euthinol.

I'm sorry you cannot be there when law enforcement shoots one of your
dogs dead inside it's own home in front of the children it mutually
loves for simply getting off the dog bed and walking over to say
hello with its tail wagging. I'm sorry you cannot be there to rescue
pitbull puppies from a plastic bag in a dumpster, dumped there by
someone switching their illegal and inhumane activities to another,
more lucrative breed.

I'm sorry you cannot understand the difference between canine and
human aggression, in the way that this breed can. Yes, I'm saying my
pitbull is smarter than you.

I'm sorry that the medieval witch-hunting genetics of intolerance,
generalization, and racism make you feel the need to vilify a breed
of dog. I'm sorry that justice, equality, tolerance, and common sense are all
things you hold dear as a fellow Canadian, and expect from
others, but do not yourself offer them towards a pit bull or its
caregiver. I'm sorry that you do not take the constructive time to
petition changes in the Canadian animal cruelty act and in the
criminal code that would deal out serious punishment to the real
animal abusers.

I'm sorry you cannot see the disappointed look on a puppy's face when the people petting it quickly frown, and walk away when you tell them it is a pit bull. I'm sorry you feel the need to terrorize my family and my dogs for crimes we never have and never will commit. I'm sorry you don't have to live in fear of your dog's safety from hysterical and mentally unstable people trying to inflict all manner of evil upon your dogs.

I'm sorry that you cannot see my breed working in some of the best
Search and Rescue groups in the world, saving countless lives each
year. I'm sorry our media censors and refuses to print the breed
name "pit bull' when in connection with a positive act, such as saving
a person or child from a burning house, drowning, wild attacking
animals, etc. I'm sorry you cannot see the many pit bulls registered
as therapy dogs and bringing so much joy to another misunderstood,
neglected demographic in our society, the senior citizen.

I am sorry you cannot see a pit bull kiss a child, step carefully over a kitten,
or play in a sunbeam. I'm sorry you cannot wake in the morning to feel
a warm pit bull cuddled next to you in bed, and know that you are their total world, and even if the house caught fire and trapped you, they would stay with you to the end.

But, now that I really think about it, I'm not at all sorry you don’t own a pit bull--you DO NOT deserve one.


I am sexy...Oh yea...
Someone told me this, I think it's bullshit, but he said a Pitbull's head awas constantly hurting or something. The top of their skulls stop growing, that's why they're a bit aggressive.

IDK, but when I was lookin at my old Pitbull, it seemed about right. OMG, I loved my Pitbull, Loki, more than anything in the world. My parents got him the same time they had me.

I can vouch that it's the owner and not the dog's fault. I can remember a bunch of kids running up and tapping my dog on the head, he wouldn't even notice or react in any way. My neighbor's dog was a German Shephard, that dog was mean. Why? The neighbor would constantly harrass or hurt the dog. Then one day the dog snapped and mauled his kid.

So, fuck what people say about Pitbulls.


Less Feeling-Tastes Great
Nailbomb said:
They can pry my Al from my cold dead hands.

BTW: This is why I only buy mutts. We've actually been dropped by one insurance company because we had pit bulls...then we told the one we moved to that we had cattle dogs. :happysad:
Me too. I had changed insurance companies a couple years ago and the new place came out to see the house, took my money and then sent me a letter 8 weeks later saying they couldn't cover me because of my dogs.

I signed on with State Farm - they don't have a "dog" rule - not yet anyway.

BTW - Thanks for the kudos on the research. There is nothing worse than someone spewing rhetoric with no facts.


Im not going to repeat the agreement on stance and what have you, there's enough of that already.

However, off the top of my head im going to throw out the first 'solution' to come to mind. Before anyone mentions it, yes, i do think it would be hard to enforce. Anyhoo...

Why not screen potential owners? For example, only breeders with a record of having well tempered, well treated dogs may own and subsequently breed a Pit? In this way there is a 'safety net' of sorts, in my mind at least, wherein we know that should a Pit go agro and attack someone, it is either a) The person antogonising the Pit, or b) The owner has not raised the dog responsibly.

I had another point but it seems to have been lost as I had to do stuff while writing this, damn :(

Anyways, feel free to shred my idea if it sucks ass.


From appaled to applauding, controversy.
I personally think the answer lies in the license; For certain breeds, extra training must be given. Or as gummi_ said, screening potential owners.

Why oh why do they always jump to a ban without considering other possibilities, I'll never know.:rolleyes:


Inconspicuously Informal
There may be a higher level of danger involved with a pit, but all dogs are dangerous even with good training. They are instinctual and will react according to the situation they are in.

I have an extremely personable and friendly aussie shepard and she would seem like she would lick you to death before ever bearing teeth. Truth is I've seen her put the hurt down on some dogs she just didn't like, also there was once an incident where she snapped at a child because the child was teasing her with a cookie. As a good owner I was a very close witness to this and grabbed her by the scruff before she could get her teeth close to the child.

I remember as a child having a retired, police trained, german shepard. She tore up the paper boy for teasing her with a newspaper, ankle to ass! Judge ruled it his fault and she lived a long life.

I'd dare say all dogs are capable of endangering humans, and it definitely depends on the owner to what degree that danger exists. The real danger does exist when the owner raises a dog, especially something as powerful as a Rot or Pit, for the sole purpose of fighting or assaulting humans.

There's absolutely no way to tax this. That is just absurd. They might as well try tagging all criminals with tracking devices before they commit their first crime.


Soul Doubt
Why go after Pit Bulls as a breed, and not dogs as a species? Ban them all. I mean, don't Jack Russels bite people just as much as Pit Bulls do, and I thought in World War 2 German Shepards were bred as war machines... Wouldn't that be basis for a ban? How about the Dobermans? Those fuckers are huge. They could easily chase down a human and kill them... Dogs that are big and black are just scary - Ban them too!

Leave people with their pets, and rather make a law against parents who don't teach their kids not to pet stranger's dogs... I think that would be more effective than a dog insurance / licence... I mean, a dog is still capable of biting a kid who runs up and just starts patting your dog, but if they're told not to, by their parents, they won't run up and start patting your dog, making it more difficult for the dog to bite them.
This thread is pretty old but...

I live in Denver and the pitbull ban is fairly recent. I rescued what I think is a pitbull mix ( if he's not he's boxer for sure). The dog lived under a car his whole life till I got him, at 5 years old. He was underfed, scars from many, many fights, deformed paws from constant time on hot concrete. He's a great dog, great temperament after all of that. I own a chinchilla. He actually sleeps during the day by the chinchilla cage.

Any dog is dangerous, and make no mistake, I don't leave him alone with the chinchilla, as I wouldn't leave him alone with any child. I came on this board to blast people who made broad, negative statements about pitbulls. I'm having a hard time picking a fight on this site :) which is shocking, since I can login to a "dog lovers" forum and read messages of hate.


Banned - What an Asshat!
[HOSTILE];809606 said:
There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

Pitbulls get a bad rap becuase the people who buy these dogs from puppy mills are very often drug dealers who abuse the dog. Our neighbor has a pit bull that is the most loving bitch on earth, she even licked my little terrier like he was her best friend when it tried to "attack" her.
My old boss had one. When I visited for the first time, he stared me down and I froze. When his wife said, "hey have a seat", the dog was headed toward me with his tail wagging. He also loved cats.