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Headlines Europe to build fusion plant...

jamesp

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http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/9/2/1

Europe plans laser-fusion facility

2 September 2005

Laser physicists in Europe have put forward plans to build a £500m facility to study a new approach to laser fusion. A panel of scientists from seven European Union countries believes that a "fast ignition" laser facility could make a significant contribution to fusion research, as well as supporting experiments in other areas of physics. The facility could be up and running by the middle of the next decade.


New route to energy The laser would be used to compress and heat a small capsule of deuterium and tritium until the nuclei are hot enough to undergo nuclear fusion and produce helium and neutrons. In a reactor the energy of the neutrons would be used to generate electricity without the emission of greenhouse gases or the generation of long-lived nuclear waste.

The most advanced approach to fusion involves using magnetic fields to confine the deuterium–tritium plasma. This is the route to be taken by ITER, which will cost $10bn to build and run. The alternative "inertial confinement" technique, which uses lasers or ion beams rather than magnets to confine the plasma, will be investigated by the National Ignition Facility (NIF) in the US and the Laser Mégajoule (LMJ) in France. However, both these billion-dollar lasers will primarily be used for nuclear-weapons research, with only 15% of their time being available for other areas of physics.

In the conventional approach to inertial confinement, which will be used at NIF and LMJ, the lasers that compress the fuel capsule also heat it. Fast ignition, which was first proposed by Max Tabak of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in the US, relies on different lasers for these two stages. According to Henry Hutchinson of the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in the UK, who set up the European panel, fast ignition requires less laser energy than the conventional approach, which means that it is considerably cheaper.

"The energy problem is sufficiently urgent that we cannot afford to ignore different approaches to fusion," he says. Hutchinson also stresses that any fast-ignition laser would be a civilian facility, and would be available for research on astrophysics, atomic physics and nuclear physics as well.

Fast ignition was first demonstrated at the Gekko XII laser at Osaka University in Japan in 2001, working with a team of UK scientists. Kodama and colleagues are now upgrading their laser system in order to approach "breakeven" - the point at which the energy output is equal to the energy needed to sustain the reaction. They then plan to further enhance their system so that it reaches ignition, which happens when the fusion reactions generate enough energy to sustain themselves without the need for further heating. Finally, they hope to build a demonstration fast-ignition facility. Physicists in the US are also studying fast ignition.

HiPER, as the European proposal is provisionally known, would be designed to achieve high energy gains, providing the critical intermediate step between ignition and a demonstration reactor. It would consist of a long-pulse laser with an energy of 200 kJ to compress the fuel and a short-pulse laser with an energy of 70 kJ to heat it.

If Hutchinson and colleagues can persuade research councils across Europe to back the proposal, construction could start around the end of the decade. Although the panel's report does not discuss where the laser should be built, the UK would be a contender to host the facility.
Pretty cool.
 

Shadow_Demon

Lord of Shadows
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If it works as they want it to that will be very awsome. how ever if for some fluke of human error the result could be just as bad as a nuclear meltdown. But hell that is a slim chance anyways.
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#3
Shadow_Demon said:
If it works as they want it to that will be very awsome. how ever if for some fluke of human error the result could be just as bad as a nuclear meltdown. But hell that is a slim chance anyways.
That's BS!

Tomorrow Americans will come with the story that Europe is planning this reactor to be able to make weapons of mass destruction...
The USA isn't progressing in an alternative energy plant because of the oil lobby. Even the president is an oiler!

So it's obvious to spread fairy tales around the world about nuclear fusion. :mfinger:
 

Darklight

Oppressing your posts...
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the power of the sun in the palm of my hand....

is spiderman on standby?
 

latinmaxima

**SPECIAL**
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Darklight said:
the power of the sun in the palm of my hand....

is spiderman on standby?
you beat me to it. i was gonna say isn't this what doc oc was doing in spiderman 2. we all saw what happened there.
 

jamesp

In Memory...
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Okay, nuclear fusion is completely possible as shown by the Tokamak reactor. It will be able to produce many times more energy with a fraction of the waste of normal fission plants. Obviously they think it will work or they wouldn't be spending a small fortune to build it.
 

Descent

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#7


"What the Credit Union software does is when it averages out the balances, it gets these fractions of a penny. What this virus does is instead of rounding off the fractions of a penny, it deposits them into an account."

"That sounds kinda familiar..."

"Yeah, they did it in Superman 3..."

How much you wanna bet these guys are going to mess up on some "Mundane Detail?"

I don't think nuclear weapons are a "mundane detail," we don't need them and they do more bad than good.
 

jamesp

In Memory...
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Descent said:
"What the Credit Union software does is when it averages out the balances, it gets these fractions of a penny. What this virus does is instead of rounding off the fractions of a penny, it deposits them into an account."

"That sounds kinda familiar..."

"Yeah, they did it in Superman 3..."

How much you wanna bet these guys are going to mess up on some "Mundane Detail?"

I don't think nuclear weapons are a "mundane detail," we don't need them and they do more bad than good.
okay, Stager, read the whole news article. This has nothing to do with WMDs. It is a new and revolutionary type of nuclear reaction called "Fusion". The point of this artivcle was to show that there are new power needs, and new types of power to keep up with the growing need. And as for them messing up on some mundane detail.....don't count on it. The EU has some of the smartest people in the world working on this en masse. We have some smart people here, I suppose yourself included, but these guys are beyond NASA smart.
 

Descent

Hella Constipated
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#9
jamesp said:
okay, Stager, read the whole news article. This has nothing to do with WMDs. It is a new and revolutionary type of nuclear reaction called "Fusion". The point of this artivcle was to show that there are new power needs, and new types of power to keep up with the growing need. And as for them messing up on some mundane detail.....don't count on it. The EU has some of the smartest people in the world working on this en masse. We have some smart people here, I suppose yourself included, but these guys are beyond NASA smart.
Yeah, I know that the EU is smart as balls, man. But didn't they say only 15% would be devoted to civilian work? And the rest would be used for weaponry researcH?
 

jamesp

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Weapons research can mean anything. It took god knows how many years from when Enrico Fermi discovered nuclear fission to building a nuclear power plant. THis is kinda the same thing. This is a completely new type of energy production, thusly, it is being researched in all fields. And as to the fear of WMDs, WMD are their own deterrent. Plus, who knows when we may have to use our fusion bombs to blow an asteroid out of the sky....?
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#11
Hmmm...

Are you blind?

I spell it out for you:

America would have made greater progress in nuclear fusion when there were no OIL lobby in the USA.

In Europe we even think that Bush tried to spread some anger between European nations to slow the Nuclear Fusion Program.
The ridiculous hate campain against France and such things only a Prince of Darkness can think of!

Oh well... I must think of the first Supersonic passenger airplane in the world that flew, and it was a European one, the Concorde.
Why are Europeans better?
Because Americans allways build 3 versions from at least 3 companies..
Then they make a choice... That means a lot of effort wasted.
Europeans build 1 version from maybe 10 companies, and assemble it into one.
 

MaxPower

You're my number two
Staff
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#12
RedOctober said:
That's BS!

Tomorrow Americans will come with the story that Europe is planning this reactor to be able to make weapons of mass destruction...
The USA isn't progressing in an alternative energy plant because of the oil lobby. Even the president is an oiler!

So it's obvious to spread fairy tales around the world about nuclear fusion. :mfinger:
That will be enough of the off-topic pointless American bashing out of you. We have been through this before with you a thousand times. You even took it so far as to get banned once over it. That was only for 7 days, let's not make it a perma-ban this time shall we?
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#13
America bashing?

Are you nuts or what!?

You have never heard of freedom of speech, nor are intended to allow it.
 

MaxPower

You're my number two
Staff
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#14
RedOctober said:
America bashing?

Are you nuts or what!?

You have never heard of freedom of speech, nor are intended to allow it.
Freedom of speech is one thing. Taking every thread and turning it into your own personal American bashing forum is another. I'm telling you now as I have many times in the past; It WILL stop. If you want to create legitimate threads, and impose your opinion, that's fine. But if you don't stop with your current MO, I'm going to ban you again as I did in the past for the very same thing. Next time it won't be for 7 days either.

To reiterate (that means go over this again); You have every right to speak your mind as long as it's relevant to any given discussion here in Issues. If you want to fuck around and make posts for the purpose of insulting people, you can go to B&T, and have a field day.
BTW Freedom of speech? The US constitution has no bearing on a privately owned forum. It is Jason and BRiT that give us ALL here the freedom to speak as we choose. If I have done or said anything that you feel is unjust, please by all means report my activities to one of them, and I will be promptly reprimanded.

In closing, I will not be discussing this with you again.


Back to the original Discussion: Europe to build fusion plant...
 

ReiMeishin

Dreaming to live
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I think that problems with containment are bound to happen whether a magnetic bottle or lasers or whatever is used to contain the plasma. I hope that significant redundancies in containment will be in place to negate that risk. An accident killing a group of brilliant physicist is the last thing the world needs.
 

RageAgainst

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The laser would be used to compress and heat a small capsule of deuterium and tritium until the nuclei are hot enough to undergo nuclear fusion and produce helium and neutrons.
Holy shit dude, that's fucked up.

I can see such scientific research turning bad, in bad hands.
 

jamesp

In Memory...
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This is the thing we dont need. In the middle ages, people were convinced that the world was flat, and were scared of discovery and new science. Nuclear fusion research is a milestone, and it definitely shouldn't be fear inducive. Certainly it can be used for bad things, or dangerous, but without research it will never get to be relatively safe. I believe that fusion research is very big deal, not just for weapons research, but for humanity. With fusion reactors, many times smaller than a fission reactor, we have an almost limitless supply of energy for, say, colonization of mars, or further exploration of the solar system. Don't focus on the possibly bad things, but the possibly beneficial things.
 

Descent

Hella Constipated
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#18
RedOctober said:
Hmmm...

Are you blind?

I spell it out for you:

America would have made greater progress in nuclear fusion when there were no OIL lobby in the USA.

In Europe we even think that Bush tried to spread some anger between European nations to slow the Nuclear Fusion Program.
The ridiculous hate campain against France and such things only a Prince of Darkness can think of!

Oh well... I must think of the first Supersonic passenger airplane in the world that flew, and it was a European one, the Concorde.
Why are Europeans better?
Because Americans allways build 3 versions from at least 3 companies..
Then they make a choice... That means a lot of effort wasted.
Europeans build 1 version from maybe 10 companies, and assemble it into one.
You're kiddng me, right?

Wanna know a little secret?

We stopped because of CHERNOBYL. Where is Chernobyl located? Ukraine, motherfuckers. Granted, Generation II American reactors were MUCH safer than the Soviet RBMK-1000 reactors, and even though the American reactors did not suffer from a positive void coeffecient during emergency shutdown, they had smiliar containment issues.

Chernobyl was unknown to the West until the Swiss, I believe, were doing a radioactive particle screening at one of their plants and their workers came up positive. The levels were large - the plant was shut down, and rigorously checked and tested. It was flawless. They traced the particles to the direction of Ukraine, and by that time they knew that something had gone seriously wrong in the Soviet Union.

A common misconception about the Chernobyl-4 reactor meltdown is that thousands died. In fact, as of 2005, only 30 have died due to gamma radiation. The majority of deaths were caused by initial cleanup - 8 firefirghters died of gamma radiation instantly upon arrival. For the first eight days, the main killer was Iodine-131, but after that it had reached it's half-life and other materials started taking their toll. Many of the sarcophagus workers died initially due to lack of radioactive protection. The sarcophagus made to enclose the radioactive fuel is still rotting to this day.

All in all, 24 workers died, and only 6 civilians. Granted, some civilians were forced to work, it's the U.S.S.R., but only 6 people not directly involved died.

The main victim was Planet Earth herself - Chernobyl and Pripyat, the latter of which the former shining star of the Soviet Union, are uninhabitable until at least 2030. Quite sad, actually.

The incident involving the Three Mile Island-2 reactor wasn't very bad at all, a steam vent was stuck open. I've never heard of any deaths actually related to the disaster, let alone see any proof.

Even though my mother says one of her aunts lived very close to Three Mile Island, and did die of cancer, many people in my mother's family get cancer but live forever with treatment. Including my mother.

The TMI-1 reactor is regarded as one of the most effecient reactors in North America, and it runs at 97% effeciency. TMI-2 is closed for good.

After Chernobyl and Three Mile Island, nobody gave a shit nor wanted nuclear power in America anymore.
 

jamesp

In Memory...
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Guys, quit moaning about weapons research. We already have Fusion bombs, i.e. the Hydrogen bomb. Saying that only 15% of the facility will be for civilian research does not insinuate weapons, it only means government research. Pansies.