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Headlines Evil Gays?!

SupaFightingRob

Master Debater
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#1
I totally stand by my church in pretty much everything. I do not support gay marriage because it goes against the true meaning for marriage which is the assurance (at least to some degree) of the child that may come out of the relationship can be raised by both parents thus "growing them up right". I truly believe that all our acts are based in someway shape or form from survival and reproduction. Anyways, the point is not on gay marriage in this particular thread.
My church has been teaching that gays should seek help for well...being gay. Now while I am against the marriage between homosexuals, I hold no distaste toward gays themeselves. Whether is be a chemical imbalance at birth or something else, they're not gay on their own accord. It is impossible to "fix" a gay because you just can't change a person's feelings.
I told this to various leaders of my church when they brought such topics up and they usually came up with some bull on how homosexuality is something a person decides to take on. I assure them as to the fact that it is an actual feeling, not a habit, and then go on to ask them how they'd be in their shoes. Say in some different reality the roles are reversed. In this reality, intimacy between different sexes is strange (and only with same sex can you produce children) and same sex is the norm. Could you change your feelings from wanting relations of the opposite sex over that of the same sex? I don't think anyone could. I know I couldn't change what I feel no matter how much they'd try and "fix" me.

....

Just for the record I'm not gay ;)


EDIT: I may have came across acting like I think gays need "fixing" but its just not possible, but really other than the fact that it goes against our nature to keep the earth going. I don't fine gays to be evil... infact... why the hell did I pick that title?
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#2
Well.. A church is a group of people, that may think whatever they want, but you can agree with it or not. At least, if you don't accept the fact of dogma's. A dogma is a statement that has to be accepted, without discussion. And that is the tricky thing about "believing".
So to a point any religion is illogical.

But that doesn't mean, a religion makes no sense at all.
A taboo can regulate the behaviour of people, there are ways groups of people act to take care of the wellfare of the entire group.
In that way, homosexuality sometimes has some advantages.

For the record.. I am not a homosexual.. :rolleyes:
Father of 3 nice kids..

But then again, homosexuality is quite common, by the fact that man and woman never are 100% of that kind.
The body is a complex structure, governed by chemicals and neuro signals.

The individual is not so important, in fact we are still those hunter/gatherer groups in society today. And there are strange whispers about homosexuals.
Some say, homo's are yellow. In prehistory they weren't allowed to join the hunters, they were not strong enough. They stayed at home, looking after the wives of the tribe.. And yes.. They did! :mfinger: :p
In that way they also spread their genes..

But in times of war, the homo's often stood firm. In the old Greece the Spartans were mostly homo's and they fought till the last man to stand up against the overwhelming power of the Persian army.
1000 Homosexuals decided over the future of Europe!

Marriage does not count for homosexuals. In The Netherlands homo couple can get married, to see that hetero couples don't get married any more.
A boy and girl simply buy a hous together, and put a contract on paper.
That's all there is to it. Marriage always was a financial contract.
Nothing more. Only in the 19th century, it started to become a romantic thing to get married.
Europeans are really astonished to see American efforts to boost a wedding into proportions of thousands of dollars.

O well, gays are nice most of the time.
As long as they keep their hands off my butt.. :D
 

Descent

Hella Constipated
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#3
Listen...all dogma will do is keep you from thinking logically. Try thinking on your own instead of letting an ancient group think for you. It will change the ways you think about many things.

Also, check this out:

http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/homosexuality/animal-homosexuality/

It's not snuff. It's an informative article on homosexuality in nature. You should read it, it's a good piece of literature.
 

TwisT

Hooked on Rocks!
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#4
SupaFightingRob said:
I totally stand by my church in pretty much everything.
There's your mistake........
 

SupaFightingRob

Master Debater
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#5
TwisT, what I mean by that is their morals. I'm not sure if the religions itself is true, but I know they only tell good things.

SupaFightingRob<-------- Mormon
 

</rant>

Tenderony
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#6
jstager said:
Try thinking on your own instead of letting an ancient group think for you.
I wrote a big responce, but that pretty much sums up my thoughts.

</rant>
 

anti-movielife

self medicated
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#8
i dont see whats wrong with gays getting married...i mean just cus they are different they cant show love? like wtf that's like saying anyone with a moles on their face cant marry either....what i have a problem with is them adopting kids...children should be raised in a healthy, natural environment and IMO being gay isn't natural but its a fact of life we have to deal with. Trying not to sound homophobic here...

I LOVE PUSSY yeaaa :thumbsup:
 

</rant>

Tenderony
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#9
Isn't the real meaning of marriage love? I see no problem with it. There is just the select few that think they know best about something they don't understand.

Straight people bring kids up with what they think is right. Why should gays be refused that right? If they can bring happiness to a childs life, who is anyone to stop that?

</rant>
 

Pachyderm

I really did.
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#10
Personally I believe religions are a way of suppression. If you are true to your religion, you will follow your bible, or what ever holy book you have, as best as you can. This means you basically have your choices and your tendancies already mapped out for you. It's the suppression of ideas that keeps people from "acting out" or rebelling, I guess you could say. Bibles have also changed with the society and times, and I don't believe that there was much in the bible that had to do with same sex relationships being a sin in the original books before the 1940s.
It's what I call rough thinking. I will go as far to think about something as an object (ie "same sex marriage") and rather than thinking of all circumstances (other than lust I mean) and deeper meanings, I will pass judgement on it very quickly.
I don't believe it is a chemical imbalance, because that would imply some sort of disorder, which has negative connotations to it. I don't think someone could take lithium or something for being gay. That is illogical.
As for gays adopting children... Instead of a child living with one divorced mommy, they will have two mommies or two daddies. There isn't a lack of love between two people of the same sex and two people of the oposite. There are a lot of very bad situations and not a lot done with those situations, so I don't think it's right to not let gays have children and then let some drunken, coke-addict with a bad temper have children because there is a lot of that happening. It's also common that a single parent will adopt and then have their family be an important role... So it's kinda like that.
for the record I am bi, but more toward the gay side.
 

TwisT

Hooked on Rocks!
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#11
SupaFightingRob said:
TwisT, what I mean by that is their morals. I'm not sure if the religions itself is true, but I know they only tell good things.

SupaFightingRob<-------- Mormon
MORMON?.............Oh fuck here we go....
 

morelos

lexicon incognito
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#12
you couldn't tell he was mormon from what his church people said?

mormons have gayness-correction therapy and shit.

everyone needs to get over it.

and religion would be ok, too, if we could get rid of two things that have stayed in it since before the advent of laws:

1) its version of 'morality,' which often contradicts modern societal morality

2) its inclusion of 'law' or the duty of 'conversion,' both of which are obsolete considering things like freedom of religion and, well, government.

the good things about religion? it can be uplifting, comforting. you can find fellowship. all that shit. yay, everyone go out there and thank god or jesus or allah or shiva for whatever you want. just don't tell me i'm going to hell, don't tell me i'm a sinner, don't tell me i'm wrong and you want to save me, don't tell me you pity me; you deserve the pity of everyone born since 400 B.C. if you say these things.

~ dan ~
 
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#13
morelos said:
you couldn't tell he was mormon from what his church people said?

mormons have gayness-correction therapy and shit.

everyone needs to get over it.

and religion would be ok, too, if we could get rid of two things that have stayed in it since before the advent of laws:

1) its version of 'morality,' which often contradicts modern societal morality

2) its inclusion of 'law' or the duty of 'conversion,' both of which are obsolete considering things like freedom of religion and, well, government.

the good things about religion? it can be uplifting, comforting. you can find fellowship. all that shit. yay, everyone go out there and thank god or jesus or allah or shiva for whatever you want. just don't tell me i'm going to hell, don't tell me i'm a sinner, don't tell me i'm wrong and you want to save me, don't tell me you pity me; you deserve the pity of everyone born since 400 B.C. if you say these things.

~ dan ~
according to the christian church, i'm going to hell cause i'm a hypocrite (sp??)
 

SupaFightingRob

Master Debater
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#15
Actually no. As far as I know the LDS church has no "gayness-correction therapy shit". We do however have voodoo curse which I'm putting on you RIGHT NOW. :D
 

ferengi

Yay fire!
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#16
Homosexuality was once considered to be a mental illness (one of the many.. uh.. interesting things you learn in high school psychology)... I don't know if that means there were ever any "treatments" for being gay.
 
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#17
morelos said:
spelled correctly.

how are you a hypocrite?

~ dan ~
well... i go to church and shit... provides me with a good nap. i'm starting to question the things i've been taught... have been for a while... everybody still thinks i'm a little goody goody christian boy... i do my thing for 2 hours every sunday... doesn't relate to my life at all.
 

</rant>

Tenderony
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#18
ferengi74656 said:
Homosexuality was once considered to be a mental illness (one of the many.. uh.. interesting things you learn in high school psychology)... I don't know if that means there were ever any "treatments" for being gay.
They did try to cure it. I recall seeing a documentary years ago, obviously staged, showing how they tried to cure it. It was basicly along the lines of making them watch gay porn, if they got turned on, their boner got burnt/zapped/fried.

Needless to say it wasn't successful.

</rant>
 

supers340

Fresh Meat
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#19
People should stand by the Scriptures, not the church

Unforgiven said:
i used to stand by the church in everything... till i started to disagree...

Standing by a religion which teaches a dogma is totally wrong, because the church can make up laws and call them divine whenever it suits their needs.

A person should look to the bible as it is the ultimate source of truth, not church dogma which is usually traditions of men.

Homosexuality is quite common, but just because something is common does not make it right.
 
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#20
A lot of times when talking about homosexual marriage people seem to have the impression all Christians are against the very idea that two people of the same sex would even want to live like that, for whatever reason. This is not the case. Usually we are just against it being defined as marriage, which is a holy union designed by God. If homosexuals want unions, partnerships, the legal benefits of merried heterosexuals--then there are some options, possibly there could be more.
Understand this. To the state, it's a piece of paper with some legal bindings, to the church it is a covenant with the Almighty. A lot of us are against some of the other laws that define marriage in the states.

Pachyderm said:
Personally I believe religions are a way of suppression. If you are true to your religion, you will follow your bible, or what ever holy book you have, as best as you can. This means you basically have your choices and your tendancies already mapped out for you. It's the suppression of ideas that keeps people from "acting out" or rebelling, I guess you could say. Bibles have also changed with the society and times, and I don't believe that there was much in the bible that had to do with same sex relationships being a sin in the original books before the 1940s...
The original King James still exists, the 1611 version. The American Standard Bible was first produced in 1901.
Though it is true that the NIV was published in 1973. The translation does not build off others, though, when someone translates the Bible it is with original ancient texts.


Pachyderm said:
It's what I call rough thinking. I will go as far to think about something as an object (ie "same sex marriage") and rather than thinking of all circumstances (other than lust I mean) and deeper meanings, I will pass judgement on it very quickly.
I don't believe it is a chemical imbalance, because that would imply some sort of disorder, which has negative connotations to it. I don't think someone could take lithium or something for being gay. That is illogical.
Perhaps not drugs but a lot in the human mind can be changed. Why, if homosexuality is natural are there not homosexual animals in the wild?

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