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Firefox sucks

squarehead

ass raped by IE
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#1
I really dont get what the hype surrounding Firefox is all about. Sure it has many useful features like tabbed browsing and a built in pop-up blocker. But Firefox is a browser. Its primary function is to render web pages. Firefox's ancient gecko engine is the oldest and crappiest among those of the major browsers, IE, Safari and Opera.

Ever since Firefox started becoming popular, I have been up to my chest in requests to make web pages "Firefox compliant". I am a web designer and have designed quite a number of sites. My sites worked just fine in IE, Opera and Safari. But along comes Firefox, with its shitty rendering engine, and now my clients are pressing me to make pages "Firefox compliant". Firefox's ancient engine almost always butchers my CSS styles so my websites look distorted. I upheld my customer satisfaction guarentee and began an ardous summer of making sites "Firefox compliant". As of now, I have updated 12 sites with 7 left to go.

If it cant render web pages right, then it's a bad browser. I dont care how many useful features it has. If it can fulfill its primary purpose, it sucks.
 

Jung

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#3
squarehead said:
Firefox's ancient gecko engine is the oldest and crappiest among those of the major browsers, IE, Safari and Opera.
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about; Gecko is actively being developed, and it's Alpha version (soon to be released somewhere around October) is at 1.8.(after the branch from Netscape) The Gecko engine conforms completely to HTML, XHTML, XML, CSS1 and CSS2 ( and some of the CSS3 working print) standards, as well as Application/XML (which is how XHTML content should be sent, and IE fails at), SVG and a few other niche things like MathML.
Firefox's ancient engine almost always butchers my CSS styles so my websites look distorted. I upheld my customer satisfaction guarentee and began an ardous summer of making sites "Firefox compliant". As of now, I have updated 12 sites with 7 left to go.
Are you writing valid websites from the beginning? Are you validating you markup and CSS? Because if you were, you wouldn’t have that problem. Firefox strictly confirms to W3C standards, IE does NOT. Take the time to write a correct, valid and semantic site and you wouldn’t have these problems. I do some web development as well and ALL of my sites work properly in Firefox, because I write them correctly. If anything, it would be the other way around; IE usually fails at rendering valid websites.
If it cant render web pages right, then it's a bad browser. I dont care how many useful features it has. If it can fulfill its primary purpose, it sucks
Too bad IE still doesn’t fully support CCS2, all of the XHTML Strict DTD, the CSS box model, the + selector, the [attr] selector, the > selector (child of), :before and :after, :focus, auto margin, relative height, 100% height or the Application/XML content type.. and too many others to list. IE is broken and has been for many years. Opera and Firefox are by far the most semantic and standards compliant browsers out there today, IE doesn't even compare.

http://validator.w3.org/ I think you should look into writing valid web sites before you start spouting off. Furthermore, post some links to your sites that need updating. I'd be willing to bet they won't pass W3C validation.

Visit www.quirksmode.org if you want to see just how bad IE sucks. IE completely fails at CSS. In fact, you have to hack and trick IE into even using the CSS box model correctly.



If you don't like Firefox, fine, like you said it's just a browser, but at least get your "facts" straight before you start saying it's "broken." :rolleyes:
 

swizeguy

How dare you!?
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#5
squarehead said:
I really dont get what the hype surrounding Firefox is all about. Sure it has many useful features like tabbed browsing and a built in pop-up blocker. But Firefox is a browser. Its primary function is to render web pages. Firefox's ancient gecko engine is the oldest and crappiest among those of the major browsers, IE, Safari and Opera.

Ever since Firefox started becoming popular, I have been up to my chest in requests to make web pages "Firefox compliant". I am a web designer and have designed quite a number of sites. My sites worked just fine in IE, Opera and Safari. But along comes Firefox, with its shitty rendering engine, and now my clients are pressing me to make pages "Firefox compliant". Firefox's ancient engine almost always butchers my CSS styles so my websites look distorted. I upheld my customer satisfaction guarentee and began an ardous summer of making sites "Firefox compliant". As of now, I have updated 12 sites with 7 left to go.

If it cant render web pages right, then it's a bad browser. I dont care how many useful features it has. If it can fulfill its primary purpose, it sucks.
haha this isnt the site to be saying that...
 

BakEd13

4:20 Celebrater
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#9
I've had issues with FF, 'rendering' if you will, CSS positions.. IE: I have a "random quote of the day" line in one of my pages that the positioning in IE is perfect, but the positioning in FF is actually about 5 px lower yet my CSS and my XHTML have both been validated by wc3.. I know this isnt really a big deal because you can write a javascript to get around it, but if my code is 'valid' css according to the WEB standard, and IE puts it in the right spot, and FF doesnt, that tells me FF doesnt render correctly.. Its not really a big deal to me, just throwing my experience and two cents in.. :D
 

Jung

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#10
CSS can be valid and still incorrect for the situation. "Valid" just means it's a correct implementation of the selector in question. I've found that IE is more open to suggestion than Firefox (which is bad) and tends to second guess mark up - some times it guesses in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. I've yet to find any situation where Firfox didn't render something correctly... I might have had to play with my markup or CSS a bit, but it has always worked for me.
 

BakEd13

4:20 Celebrater
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#11
Yeah I realise this.. Just found it interesting that IE put it where I want it, and FF didn't.. But its not hard to write a script around it, so I'm over it.. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PHP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Jung

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#12
BakEd13 said:
GO PHP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like PHP because it's easy to code in, but it's really a shitty language. I wish it fully supported OO and didn't have shitty features like register_globals and magic quotes. :(
 

squarehead

ass raped by IE
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#13
First off. Gecko is being developed. I agree with that. But firefox's engine hasnt changed since back in the day when it was known as firebird. I have firebird 0.6, firefox0.9 and firefox 1.0. All of them make the same rendering errors. This shows that either the engine hasnt changed or all those supposed changes dont work. Gecko can be constantly improved upon but those changes were not incorporated into Firefox. After all, gecko was intended to netscape and mozilla.

And second, what do you use CSS for? If you just use CSS for text styles and backgrounds, you wont run into any problems. Firefox renders most CSS just fine. But it butchers CSS when you use it for layout. and yes I can assure you that my CSS is W3C standards compliant. My xhtml is compliant with the exception of all the alt tags. I find them retarded.

And I dont have any links to websites that are broken. You see, my clients dont like it when their website is broken. So I replaced the CSS in all the broken websites with tables as a temporary solution and then attempted to work with the CSS.

Oh and btw, I didnt say IE is great. I said its rendering engine is better than FF's. IE, along with Opera and safari have better engines than FF. If you have ever tried to layout websites with CSS, you would know. Go over to www.sitepoint.com and browse the forums. Most of the layout problems for which people are asking for help occur in FF.
 

Mr.Happy

Go And Die
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#14
firefox is a pretty good browser the only problem with it is that it freezes my computer, but i blame that on my crappy computer
 
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#15
squarehead said:
First off. Gecko is being developed. I agree with that. But firefox's engine hasnt changed since back in the day when it was known as firebird. I have firebird 0.6, firefox0.9 and firefox 1.0. All of them make the same rendering errors. This shows that either the engine hasnt changed or all those supposed changes dont work. Gecko can be constantly improved upon but those changes were not incorporated into Firefox. After all, gecko was intended to netscape and mozilla.

And second, what do you use CSS for? If you just use CSS for text styles and backgrounds, you wont run into any problems. Firefox renders most CSS just fine. But it butchers CSS when you use it for layout. and yes I can assure you that my CSS is W3C standards compliant. My xhtml is compliant with the exception of all the alt tags. I find them retarded.

And I dont have any links to websites that are broken. You see, my clients dont like it when their website is broken. So I replaced the CSS in all the broken websites with tables as a temporary solution and then attempted to work with the CSS.

Oh and btw, I didnt say IE is great. I said its rendering engine is better than FF's. IE, along with Opera and safari have better engines than FF. If you have ever tried to layout websites with CSS, you would know. Go over to www.sitepoint.com and browse the forums. Most of the layout problems for which people are asking for help occur in FF.
Maybe you should prove it and post a pic of the site on IE and on firefox. Also can we see the code?
 

Jung

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#16
squarehead said:
And second, what do you use CSS for? If you just use CSS for text styles and backgrounds, you wont run into any problems.
I write 100% CSS sites, meaning I use it for positioning and everything. I don't use tables at all.
Firefox renders most CSS just fine. But it butchers CSS when you use it for layout.
No it doesn't, show me proof or an instance that it does. I use CSS for positioning in ALL my sites, and Firefox renders them just fine.

If you want examples of Firefox rendering 100% CSS sites, check out www.csszengarden.com - all the sites there use ONLY CSS for positioning... in fact, they all use the same structural HTML file.
And I dont have any links to websites that are broken.
A website without a link? Hmm...
 

BakEd13

4:20 Celebrater
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#17
I think you guys are having similiar problems that I had, just in a much larger scale.. If you use Firefox to actually design the website, IE: from the actual start of your code, to testing your CSS positions/styles, It will render fine in FF but maybe not in IE. The same can be said about IE to FF.. For some reason the positioning is different.. I actually found out that the scrollbar in IE can add pixels to the right, and FF wont.. But that is where finding out which client the user is using can be handy.. I just wrote a script that if it found the mozilla engine, to position it a certain way, and if it found the gecko engine, to position it another way.. Seemed to work out great..
 

squarehead

ass raped by IE
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#18
going off on a tangent here but...

with all my clients bitching at me to fix their websites, you'll think that FF is really popular.

NetApplications, an internet analysis company, says IE has 85% of browser market share and FF has like 8%.

I thought FF had like 50% market share.
 

Jung

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#19
I do use Firefox to check my sites, but I write them strictly for cross browser compliance. I usually have to go back and fix things for IE, whereas Opera will render anything Firefox does. In all cases, the code is valid from the start. You can have valid CSS and have it still shit on your layout.

I've used Firefox since it was Phoenix 0.6 and honestly, the only sites that I've ever seen to not render correctly were poorly coded. I'm not flaming you, but I think you need to realize that CSS that works in IE isn't the defacto standard, and you should write for ALL browsers, not just IE. Firefox renders good CSS just fine, and I seriously doubt you can prove otherwise.


Not to mention you can't use advanced CSS like below in IE. I usually end up dumbing down my designs for IE, and it's annoying.


body > ol > li p;

or

ul li:nth-child(2n+3):not:)last-child);
 
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#20
Nah, still to many tards using IE. I'm not sure of the exact % but its less than 50% for Firefox.