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Headlines Guns+Mental Patients=Bad Idea

Jiraffe

Domesticated Savage
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#1
WASHINGTON (AP) -- In Alabama, a man with a history of mental illness killed two police officers with a rifle he bought on Christmas Eve.

In suburban New York, a schizophrenic walked into a church during Mass and shot to death a priest and a parishioner.

In Texas, a woman taking anti-psychotic medication used a shotgun to kill herself.

Not one of their names was in a database that licensed gun dealers must check before making sales -- even though federal law prohibits the mentally ill from purchasing guns...

.....wait there's more

Personally I believe that if it is proven by medical history that these people and others like them are unstable not only should they not have the right to purchase a fire arm but the american people should have the right to know who they are and what they suffer from as a caution. Not to stir up fear in our neighborhoods but to give them a warning that shit might happen especially if things are not balanced.

I do not hate the mentally ill but I treat them as such. They have a disease that can and does affect their reaction to their surroundings. Medication can help, counseling can help, but until proven healed or cured these people should be watched carefully. I fell sympathy for these people but they should be controlled until they can control themselves. Any thoughts?
 

Piro

From appaled to applauding, controversy.
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#2
You make a good point, but there's a thing called confidentiality or privacy policies. Doctors are supposed to guarantee it. So you see, it would in breach of contract to supply the details of the patient to the firearms division. :happysad:
 

Jiraffe

Domesticated Savage
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#3
But at the same time a sort of confidential way of saying things would work. Ya dig? Don't state what the exact problem is but instead list out which problems are potentially dangerous and instead of saying "Joe Bob has Schizophrenia" say "It is inadvicable that Joe Bob be allowed to carry a firearm".
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#4
Jiraffe said:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- In Alabama, a man with a history of mental illness killed two police officers with a rifle he bought on Christmas Eve.
What? Is it already Christmas in Alabama? How about a time check?! :rolleyes:

I do not hate the mentally ill but I treat them as such. They have a disease that can and does affect their reaction to their surroundings. Medication can help, counseling can help, but until proven healed or cured these people should be watched carefully. I fell sympathy for these people but they should be controlled until they can control themselves. Any thoughts?
It depends on what the symptoms are. Most "normal" people start behaving like lunatics after a drink or two. Especially republicans.. :flamed:
That is.. If you could say that republicans are normal.. :eek:

Some types of mental illness are just a lack of certain chemicals in the brain. If the patient takes them like the doctor prescribed, they are normal like you and me.

On the other hand, a human being that wants to buy a gun, is in my opinion a sick person without a doubt. The "I don't know what amendment" wasn't for protection against other civilians, it was for protection against an oppressor that threatens the American Constitution.

So if you would buy a gun to revolt against Bush and his mob it would be OK, according to what the Founding Fathers meant. :p
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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#5
You can't afix a label to a person because they are, or once were mentally ill. It would only serve to further the stereotypes and to create wide spread fear of an individual. Most people in the states don't even have the basic understanding of what most mental illnesses mean. Hell, there are still people out there that call it Multiple Personality Dissorder or Schizophrenia and think they're just possesed by deamons.

Beyond that, where do you stop? Why stop with major mental illnesses. Why not move on to major physical issues like AIDS? And then pretty quick we all have to wear mood rings because that guy who's pissed off is more likely to be a threat than the chick who's happy.

Rather than that, why not reform the laws required in the US to purchase a gun in the first place. You can't buy a car without a driver's license.... maybe we need a gun owner's license. You take a test, you go through your background check and if you pass you're licensed to purchase firearms. One license would allow you to own as many as you like. You just have to renew it every 4 years.

It might help catch the nutters out there but frankly it won't do more than that. Laws like the one I proposed simply keep the honest people honest. How do you regulate the private sale of guns? Hell, they can't even stop the private sale of pot.
 

BadEvilWrong

I'd melt the world to stop with you.
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#6
That is the dilemma of America, isn't it? How does one limit the actions of the dishonest without creating unconstitutional laws?
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#7
BadEvilWrong said:
That is the dilemma of America, isn't it? How does one limit the actions of the dishonest without creating unconstitutional laws?
with bullets. :thumbsup:
in their heads. :thumbsup:
 

BadEvilWrong

I'd melt the world to stop with you.
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#8
Nonsense. Such a death would be much too merciful.

But now, how do we do the same with the mentally incompacitated?
 

Jiraffe

Domesticated Savage
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#9
RedOctober said:
What? Is it already Christmas in Alabama? How about a time check?! :rolleyes: :
No it isn't Christmas in Alabama. This report stated cases from this year. Thus He bought the rifle last year. How about a common sense check?:p
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#10
Jiraffe said:
No it isn't Christmas in Alabama. This report stated cases from this year. Thus He bought the rifle last year. How about a common sense check?:p
you're talking to RedOctober.. thus wasting your time unless you are attacking everyone except the dutch..
here's an idea..
WE
ALL
IGNORE
HIM
:thumbsup:
 

Jiraffe

Domesticated Savage
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#11
Anyway back to subject...

I'm not talking about affixing a label to a group of people but rather instituting a sort of Megan's law if you will, Uber. A way to control the situation that is clearly a threat to the american public.
 
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#12
Jiraffe said:
I do not hate the mentally ill but I treat them as such. They have a disease that can and does affect their reaction to their surroundings. Medication can help, counseling can help, but until proven healed or cured these people should be watched carefully. I fell sympathy for these people but they should be controlled until they can control themselves. Any thoughts?
Hmm.

Medication? I disagree with you there. I think medication is a way to turn people into something else...

Counseling however, is a great idea. I was classified as having some uh...mental disorders a while back(some I was born with), and I've been seeing my counselor again lately. Going to see a counselor is a great way to find out who YOU are and how well you deal with yourself. Your knowledge of your own mind and your open-mindedness towards criticism will improve(although not so much that you change solely for the pleasure of other people).

If these people were mentally stable, I'm not sure how much they'd want to own a gun anyway, but this is just based on my own non-existant personal interest in guns.
 
#13
Although Red portrays him or herself as an ignorant nut..the point about being able to bear arms to take down an oppresive government is the reason why the founding fathers made this amendment a reality.

Unfortunately though, if it ever came to a showdown the citizens would be comparable to having pitchforks vs the military..

And getting rid of our right to bear arms will be problematic, considering the measures the US has to go through to make new amendment..so what do you propose a manditory evaluation before one purchases a weapon? Because not even that can predict future behavior.

As I understand the gun laws, a felon is not allowed to purchase a firearm...Mental illness though is not always an indicator that said person will go on a shooting spree. Herein lies the problem, trying to predict a crime commited by a person who may or may not have a mental illness that may possibly have or not have a predispositioin for violence with guns.

Oh, and the uses for weapons in case anyone wonders are food, sport, and protection from becoming a victim. We have three in our house..a rifle for food, a 22 caliber antique pistol and a 22 black powder pistol for my husband's amuzement.
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#14
i'm sure there's more than a few people who would describe me as having mental problems.. i'm pretty sure we all have mental problems.. yet, i have guns. and i don't indiscriminately shoot people.

some mental problems and guns aren't the problem.

not understanding accountability, not having strong morals, not being a responsible member of society.. these are the problems. plenty of 'sane' people have none of those qualities.

i agree that felons shouldn't be allowed to legally own a gun, and anyone diagnosed as having a disorder that would affect their ability to judge their own actions.. be that insanity, chronic substance abuse, delusional behavior..

and the rest of us..?

you want to see a massive reduction in crime?

mandatory licensed/trained gun ownership. one house, one gun.. and then we'll get crime rates like switzerland..
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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#15
curliestalicia said:
Oh, and the uses for weapons in case anyone wonders are food, sport, and protection from becoming a victim. We have three in our house..a rifle for food, a 22 caliber antique pistol and a 22 black powder pistol for my husband's amuzement.
So you have a gun for food and what about the other two? The blackpowder gun fits none of your states uses. The antique .22 I suppose could be called a protection gun but that's a load of bull anyway. Antique guns aren't reliable and the .22 isn't suitable for use as a protective round at any rate.
 
#16
UberSkippy said:
So you have a gun for food and what about the other two? The blackpowder gun fits none of your states uses. The antique .22 I suppose could be called a protection gun but that's a load of bull anyway. Antique guns aren't reliable and the .22 isn't suitable for use as a protective round at any rate.
Like I said for my husband's amusement which falls under the category of sport..He likes to go out with his step-father and shoot targets with them..Do not ask me why I do not understand why he finds this amusing, but he does so that's cool.

And yes those little pea shooters come in handy. If you feel like reading a funny and somewhat embarrasing story then read on if not then ignore..

One night after a family dinner, my bro's girlfriend was going to empty the trash..She opened the door, closed it immediately, and exclaimed to my hubby that there was no way in hell she was going out there.

I ran over asking what was the matter..She says, "T-there is a-a-an opposum out there on the porch and it growled at me!"..I said, "No way!" So I opened the door, looked on the porch and there was the biggest opposum I had ever seen..It was bigger than my 15 lb. house cat, and the fucker hissed at me..I screamed and by that time he got to the door with the so now named "hoss pistol" shuffled me out of the way..cocked the gun and cracked the door.

"FUUUCK", he spouted and fired a shot..Then the pissed off critter started comming to rip him a new one..I hear eight more shots pop off in rapid succession and all was quiet.

He turned around red in the face, and everyone was looking at him..I went over to the door and looked outside at the offender and was immediately disgusted. Then everyone started laughing hysterically. It was one of the wierdest things that have happened, but we live in the boonies so woodland creatures with rabies (as this one was obviously infected..per display of aggression, size, and unwillingness to keel over and die) can be a problem.
 
#17
void said:
you want to see a massive reduction in crime?

mandatory licensed/trained gun ownership. one house, one gun.. and then we'll get crime rates like switzerland..
Well my father had eight guns, but now only keeps one..He never went on a rampage.

He keeps on now because it was passed down through the family as an heirloom. It supposed to be some kind of tradition to hand it down from father to oldest son or something...Sometimes he hunts with it.
 

RetArt

A Rampant Vagitarian
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#18
You need proper gun control, not "i am mentally ill" stamped on peoples foreheads. Your biggest problems are the guns that are already at the market. Otherwise it would be easy to run this through. That and the revolting rednecks. People would have to pass a test that would have questions about the use, the safety and so forth, and then target practice. There would also their backrounds be checked for violent behaviour, diagnosed mental illnesses and what the gun is for?

Mental illnesses are not to be discriminated. Everyone could practically have them, and also be cured. Bad childhood, lack of basic trust (theory by M.Mahler), headtrauma and whatnot could cause mental illnesses.. Of course schizophrenics should not have guns. Nor does amger management patients..

It is very weird that americans see nothing wrong when a housewife buys an assault rifle...? phhssttt.

Guns are a nice hobby in right hands. Get some laws on it.
 
#19
RetArt said:
Guns are a nice hobby in right hands. Get some laws on it.
Actually, I think since the right to bear arms is included in the constitution that the federal government has given delegation of gun laws and regulation to the respective individual states.

In my state felons aren't allowed to purchase weapons, there is a seven day "cooling off" period before you can buy a gun (as a precaution for those who think knocking someone off would make life easier), and in my respective county hunters must first past a safety course before getting their license to hunt (those who have been in the military or police force are exempt from the safety course..I suppose the rationale is that if a person has been in either of them that they already understand the safe handling of weapons).
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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#20
RetArt said:
You need proper gun control, not "i am mentally ill" stamped on peoples foreheads. Your biggest problems are the guns that are already at the market.
No, the biggest problem is the lack of enforcement of laws which are already IN place. We're too busy fighting "The War on Drugs" to deal with guns. I won't go into all the reasons to legalize some drugs but frankly, if we spent less money combating pot heads and more money combating legitimate crime I think things would change rather drastically.

What cracks me up is that the gun control nazi's want guns eliminated while the NRA wants very stiff penalties for using guns in crimes. You tell me, which one is more likely to be an effective AND realistic?