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Discuss Hell no we wont go!

Pachyderm

I really did.
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#1
I am not sure of the validity of this particular source, but there are many more like it:
I don't know the likelihood of this happening, I have heard anywhere from "probably not" to "probably," point is, no one is sure. I have posted about the draft before and we know that it was proposed by two democrats but also backed by republicans so it's flying from both sides, don't get me wrong.

In December 2001, Canada and the US signed a "Smart Border Declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in

Three months after Sept. 11 and one month before the starting of the war on Iraq and terrorism, the US and Canada signed a bill to protect it's borders from would-be draft dodgers. We haven't had a draft since the 70's, so why would we need the closure of borders in 2001, with no draft insight? To me this is questionable. Was the government or the Bush administration planning this from even before the war? Was it to secure our wellbeing by being "prepared" in our future?

The Pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of Congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

This statement makes it seem inevitable, that this [draft] is and will close in on us. What ever happened to our (one of the largest) standing army? Billions are being spent on defence, and now we need more people to "man" the war? I am not going to say that over 1000 deaths is not reputable, but it doesn't seem like we have lost very many soldiers, and I don't believe we have sent everyone in the military over, so why would we reinstate a draft?

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will not be options...Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their cur-rent semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.

OKAY, here's the kicker. If my number is up, I can't finish college? Is there that large of a shortage that people can't finish their education? Seems to me that someone is trying to keep me uneducated. Am I being oppressed here? I certainly think so. Also (this may be a little of topic) Bush is for funding community and vocational colleges even more and is for vouchers on private schools. Last time I checked community and vocational colleges are the cheapest colleges you can get in and aren't the best education compared to a university or a four year college. Private school are more expensive and harder to get into. What this says to me: Either you go to a "lower" school or you are rich and go to a "high" school. There is no middle ground here, it's definitely not appealing to the middle class and it seems like it's keeping more people out of a good education by "pushing" people towards community colleges rather than 4 year schools, lowerclass and middleclass alike.
Anyway.. Hell no I wont go.

There is a point between when the bill is signed and when it goes into action. I am sure many people will protest, but will it actually work to repeal it? I think not. When the Lacy Peterson law was signed into action, a rally of the largest protest march in history was set up in Washington D.C, and it basically did nothing. So will a protest actually work?

My thoughts on our country are quite skeptical now and I am slowly but surely becoming more discouraged about America.

You can read the whole artical here:
http://www.vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/105146.php
 

Hypertron

Asshole of the Year
457
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16
#3
lynduhland said:
just say you have flat feet :p
that dosn't work, they have arch supports for that and the only way to get out of it is if you have back problems which have to be checked out by a millitary doctor.
 

lynduhland

Prone to Bad Karma
79
0
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#4
Hypertron said:
that dosn't work, they have arch supports for that and the only way to get out of it is if you have back problems which have to be checked out by a millitary doctor.

wah :( two of my friends have flat feet. that sucks they cant get excused :(
 

shep75

Tenderony
279
0
0
#5
Pachyderm said:
I am not sure of the validity of this particular source, but there are many more like it:
I don't know the likelihood of this happening, I have heard anywhere from "probably not" to "probably," point is, no one is sure. I have posted about the draft before and we know that it was proposed by two democrats but also backed by republicans so it's flying from both sides, don't get me wrong.

In December 2001, Canada and the US signed a "Smart Border Declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in

Three months after Sept. 11 and one month before the starting of the war on Iraq and terrorism, the US and Canada signed a bill to protect it's borders from would-be draft dodgers. We haven't had a draft since the 70's, so why would we need the closure of borders in 2001, with no draft insight? To me this is questionable. Was the government or the Bush administration planning this from even before the war? Was it to secure our wellbeing by being "prepared" in our future?

The Pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of Congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

This statement makes it seem inevitable, that this [draft] is and will close in on us. What ever happened to our (one of the largest) standing army? Billions are being spent on defence, and now we need more people to "man" the war? I am not going to say that over 1000 deaths is not reputable, but it doesn't seem like we have lost very many soldiers, and I don't believe we have sent everyone in the military over, so why would we reinstate a draft?

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will not be options...Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their cur-rent semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.

OKAY, here's the kicker. If my number is up, I can't finish college? Is there that large of a shortage that people can't finish their education? Seems to me that someone is trying to keep me uneducated. Am I being oppressed here? I certainly think so. Also (this may be a little of topic) Bush is for funding community and vocational colleges even more and is for vouchers on private schools. Last time I checked community and vocational colleges are the cheapest colleges you can get in and aren't the best education compared to a university or a four year college. Private school are more expensive and harder to get into. What this says to me: Either you go to a "lower" school or you are rich and go to a "high" school. There is no middle ground here, it's definitely not appealing to the middle class and it seems like it's keeping more people out of a good education by "pushing" people towards community colleges rather than 4 year schools, lowerclass and middleclass alike.
Anyway.. Hell no I wont go.

There is a point between when the bill is signed and when it goes into action. I am sure many people will protest, but will it actually work to repeal it? I think not. When the Lacy Peterson law was signed into action, a rally of the largest protest march in history was set up in Washington D.C, and it basically did nothing. So will a protest actually work?

My thoughts on our country are quite skeptical now and I am slowly but surely becoming more discouraged about America.

You can read the whole artical here:
http://www.vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/105146.php
as an active duty marine, i would never want to serve with a draftee. who the hell want's to serve with some asshole who doesn't want to be there in the first palce? i know i sure as hell don't. on the other hand.......... i would love to see the faces of some of these little punks when their draft cards came in. :mfinger:
 

shep75

Tenderony
279
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0
#6
Hypertron said:
that dosn't work, they have arch supports for that and the only way to get out of it is if you have back problems which have to be checked out by a millitary doctor.

all you would have to do is act like your punk self in front of a draft board. :mfinger:
 

Pachyderm

I really did.
802
0
0
#7
shep75 said:
as an active duty marine, i would never want to serve with a draftee. who the hell want's to serve with some asshole who doesn't want to be there in the first palce? i know i sure as hell don't. on the other hand.......... i would love to see the faces of some of these little punks when their draft cards came in. :mfinger:
Which punks are we talking about? The ones that don't want to go to war for something they don't believe in? Or the ones that support the war blindly?
 

tzedek

Original Member
2,515
3
38
#8
shep75 said:
as an active duty marine, i would never want to serve with a draftee. who the hell want's to serve with some asshole...
why would you consider a draftee to be an asshole? personally I think you're the asshole for calling a potentially huge amount of people (of which you know none of them) assholes becuase of their beliefs. If you want to fight for corporate America go right ahead, but thats not what i will do.
 

tzedek

Original Member
2,515
3
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#9
about the draft - my gf gets the American free press which has had a lot of info about the draft. I really dont believe that they will force college students in mandatory service. It would be devastating to any politican to do that.
 

Pachyderm

I really did.
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#10
Tzedek, you should get the paper and post more about it. I am not completely informed as none of us are completely and I would like to know more.
 

tzedek

Original Member
2,515
3
38
#11
Last June, the Senate overwhelmingly passed a bill to increase the size of the Army by 20,000 persons, and a month earlier the House voted to add 30,000 soldiers and 9,000 Marines by 2007.

What is going to happen in late August at the Republican National Convention in New York City many will see as a precursor of what will take place when the nation starts drafting young men, and perhaps even women, for the military.

It (the Pentagon) has blocked the retirement of 40,000 soldiers, many from the National Guard and reserves, both of which have been drawn down to dangerous levels by extended deployments, which has wrecked the recruitment process to procure the needed manpower.


Link

that is from the 2nd article i read in AFP. i will look a little more for the first one.
 

DanGeo23

Resident Conservative
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#13
There will be no draft... it was proposed as an attempt at class warfare that largely failed.. however there are those that still believe the rhetoric...
As a soldier I too wouldn't want to go to war with draftees... although some may do their job just fine... their would inevitably be those that would create a more unsafe environment...
 

MaxPower

You're my number two
Staff
16,851
3,350
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#14
I registered for the draft when I was 18. That was 17 years ago. So even back then they knew there was a potential that we may at some time have to call on any able bodied citizen to fight for the country.
If I was called in on the draft I would go. But If I thought that it was likely, I would enlist. At least you have more choice of where you go and in what capacity.
 
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#15
Draft is bad

We all don't want the draft.

So, stop the democrats, yes, the democrats, who are trying to create a draft. Their reasoning is that people of all monetary backgrounds should be soldiers, not just the poor who are usually soldiers. I think drafts are horrible, and it makes me feel better to know that all the soldiers who died were volunteers. Of course they should not have died, but they GAVE their lives for their country as opposed to their country TAKING their lives. Its a big difference.
 

Pachyderm

I really did.
802
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#16
More of my favorite game
We have already had another post on this topic about the two democrats ( can't remember their names) and Chuck Hagel the republican who backed along with them. It's floating around now, and from what I gather they want it to pass right away, BEFORE the election. The president signs the bill into action which will then make it so a republican passed it. We can't stop the democrats because no one knew they were going to propose the idea, but we can stop the republican who could very well sign it into action. No use crying over spilt milk, but we can catch the next glass before it falls.
 

DanGeo23

Resident Conservative
1,218
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#17
a Republican said that he supported it.. that doesn't make it sponsored by him... he supports it because he feels.... (his opinion)... that every able bodied person should take part because he feels it will improve discipline... and broaden peoples views... The bills are sponsored by Sen. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., and Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y. No action has been scheduled on either measure. they proposed it as a way to try to show that Republicans as a whole oppose the draft because they dont' want their kids to go... which would be class/race warfare bait...
during my time in the military I have found that it isn't the "poor" that are soldiers... it is usually a certian personality or certian character traits that draws one to the military... of course there are some that go in for college money... but that is still their choice... I met people from very well-to-do families... some families it is a family tradition that is looked upon with honor to serve in the military.. that goes for rich and poor alike..
 

MaxPower

You're my number two
Staff
16,851
3,350
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#18
I think that only women should be drafted..............and shipped to the Gulf to serve as concubines for our soldiers. :thumbsup:
 

DanGeo23

Resident Conservative
1,218
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#20
MaxPower said:
I think that only women should be drafted..............and shipped to the Gulf to serve as concubines for our soldiers. :thumbsup:
hmmm now that is some draft legislation I think I could support.. hmmm..