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Headlines Innocent Man shot: Justified or Not

Justified Force or Murder?

  • Justified force

    Votes: 12 57.1%
  • Murder

    Votes: 9 42.9%

  • Total voters
    21

Demosthenes

Looking for truth
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#1
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050724/1/3toq2.html

Update: The Brazilian man was fleeing because his Visa had expired.

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but I want to know if you think that the police were merely being careful and made an honest mistake or if there is no excuse for the death of an innocent man.
 
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#2
Well, the cops were simply doing their job, and they were understandably jittery, but the guy was not a terrorist, and killing people is wrong. It's that simple.
 
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#3
That man had to have been living there for a little while to have an expired visa, which in that case had to have known that some serious shit had been going down in London, and that running from the cops with a thick jacket on towards the SUBWAY was not the brightest idea. I think the cops did what was necessary, because you can't take that chance to stop and ask questions when people are blowing shit up. And if you think about it with a cruel sense of humor, atleast they weren't racist and ignored him because he was brazilian.
 
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#4
Aliensavant said:
That man had to have been living there for a little while to have an expired visa, which in that case had to have known that some serious shit had been going down in London, and that running from the cops with a thick jacket on towards the SUBWAY was not the brightest idea.
Look at it from his point of view, he's on an expired visa, he is probably scared shitless when the cops point guns at him and tell him to stop, so obviously he ran, you aren't neccessarily thinking clearly in that situation. Also, he took a BUS to the subway, so if he was a terrorist, mightn't he have blew himself up then? The cops didn't challenge him THEN, did they? Not saying it was the fault of the cops, but the guy was killed for no reason.
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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#5
canadian_pov said:
Look at it from his point of view, he's on an expired visa, he is probably scared shitless when the cops point guns at him and tell him to stop, so obviously he ran, you aren't neccessarily thinking clearly in that situation. Also, he took a BUS to the subway, so if he was a terrorist, mightn't he have blew himself up then? The cops didn't challenge him THEN, did they? Not saying it was the fault of the cops, but the guy was killed for no reason.
No, he was killed for a reason. At the time the police had to make a judgement call and from his actions they determined him to be a threat. Hind sight is 20/20.

He should not have run. When a cop pulls a gun on you the last thing you shoud do is give him a reason to pull the trigger. Actually, when ANYONE pulls a gun on you the last thing you should do is give them a reason to pull the trigger. He made a poor decision and the cops reacted. Their poor decision was predicated on his poor decision.

Should they have shot him? At the time yes. Looking back, no they shouldn't have.

He was innocent but he forced the hands of armed men. He is dead because of choices he made and that blame saddly needs to lie on his shoulders. Had he manned up and admitted to being an illegal alien they wouldn't have shot him. Deported him maybe but shot him no.
 
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#6
In the end, this is how I see it, we weren't there, don't have all the details, and therefore can't have an intelligent discussion about it. Who says he knew they had guns? What if he was looking the other way? None of us know so we should all shut the fuck up, myself included.
 

RetArt

A Rampant Vagitarian
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#7
Hey.. The guy came from a "suspicious building", he was visiting a friend. He came from Brazil, from the poorer side, where when seeing civils yelling they are the police and ordering to stop, obeying them hardly is a good idea. He came from Brazil so he wore a skiing jacket in July. Maybe he was not used to the british weathers.
And it sounds a little like unnecessary use of force if you first trip a man down and the shoot him in the head from close range. Five times.

One things for sure, I never let my visa expire if I ever live in the UK
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#8
Ok asshats, what you don't seem to understand, is that the co called "cops" were undercover. How the hell could a Brazilian electrician make the difference between some guys of the mob with sunglasses (quite common in Brazil) and a few undercover policemen?

Do you EVER use your brains when reading a fucking article?
 
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#9
Okay, I read an article about them finding the guy innocent. Witness reports say that the cops HAD THE GUY PINNED. I stress that last part because that is what makes this a case of murder. They had the guy pinned and yet still put five bullets into him. Why the fuck would any cop kill a guy they had pinned, especially when they would need him for questioning that would have proven his innocence without all this mess?
 
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#10
tiger_86 said:
Okay, I read an article about them finding the guy innocent. Witness reports say that the cops HAD THE GUY PINNED. I stress that last part because that is what makes this a case of murder. They had the guy pinned and yet still put five bullets into him. Why the fuck would any cop kill a guy they had pinned, especially when they would need him for questioning that would have proven his innocence without all this mess?
Well, if he is a suicide bomber, he can still blow himself up if his arms are free. But I agree, this was murder, plain and simple. The guy had actually got into a bar fight a few days beforehand, and might have thought that it was the same guys coming after him.
 

MaxPower

You're my number two
Staff
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#11
RedOctober said:
Ok asshats, what you don't seem to understand, is that the co called "cops" were undercover. How the hell could a Brazilian electrician make the difference between some guys of the mob with sunglasses (quite common in Brazil) and a few undercover policemen?

Do you EVER use your brains when reading a fucking article?

Sit back down son. You can debate without the personal attacks.

~K? THX
 

Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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#12
where does it say it say he was pinned?
Witnesses said the Brazilian -- described as looking "like a cornered rabbit" -- fell to the floor in a train carriage before a policeman standing directly above shot him five times in the head.
^ is a lot different from pinned. considering the circumstances if a man you think may be a terrorist drops to the ground suddenly id be scared that this wsa the moment. although 5 shots to the head may be excessive, as the article points out if he was the terrorist, and he was alive he could still kill a lot of people.

not sure, i could make a case either way. i think that it is his fault though. i dont care if they were undercover, when someone has a gun and can use it why wouldn't you cooperate? and he isn't in brazil and must have been away from brazil for awhile if his visa is expired.
 
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#13
WizardlyFriend, it was another article I read in the St. Louis Post. Witnesses say the cops were the ones who knocked him to the ground and pinned him before shooting him five times.
 

Jung

???
Premium
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#14
RedOctober said:
Ok asshats, what you don't seem to understand, is that the co called "cops" were undercover. How the hell could a Brazilian electrician make the difference between some guys of the mob with sunglasses (quite common in Brazil) and a few undercover policemen?

Do you EVER use your brains when reading a fucking article?
I'll leave it at what Max said this time, and not edit your post. Next time you post something that I have to edit though, you're going to take a break from posting.
 

Piro

From appaled to applauding, controversy.
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#15
"He can massacre in his final seconds of consciousness" -what's been nailed into the heads of the police.
Mistakes are bound to happen, but what IF he WAS armed...he did run after all.
I'm not being disrespectful; I’m just being a realist. When you way the odds, one death versus one hundred, you can see why they acted the way they did. A tragedy nether the less. I’m certain it will not be the last, sadly. Fucking terrorists.

BTW, I've heard the police are using low density shells to stop ricocheting bullets from hitting nearby persons. Thats their excuss for the "excessive" amount of shots to the head. Plus, they were intending to kill him afterall, an extra few bullets would make sure of that.
 

Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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#17
canadian_pov said:
The title of this thread says it all. INNOCENT man shot.
and im sure when the police shot him they thought he was an innocent man... him being innocent doesn't prove anything. him being innocent is what is sparking this debate. if he was carrying a bomb we'd be calling these police great men for making a good decision.
 
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#18
WizardlyFriend said:
and im sure when the police shot him they thought he was an innocent man... him being innocent doesn't prove anything. him being innocent is what is sparking this debate. if he was carrying a bomb we'd be calling these police great men for making a good decision.
Imagine if this was say, your father, or some other person that you care about. You wouldn't give a shit if the police acted according to protocol or not. The guy is dead, that's all there is to it. Sure the police were just doing their jobs, sure the guy should have stopped, sure the police may have gone a bit overboard, but in the end, the guy is still dead.
 

Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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#19
canadian_pov said:
Imagine if this was say, your father, or some other person that you care about. You wouldn't give a shit if the police acted according to protocol or not. The guy is dead, that's all there is to it. Sure the police were just doing their jobs, sure the guy should have stopped, sure the police may have gone a bit overboard, but in the end, the guy is still dead.
i cant say how i would act in that situation. i'd like to say that i am a very empathetic person, and that i would be able to understand, but im not sure if i could. i have examined both sides of the story from my point of view and all in all, i think that the police used justified force.
 
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#20
WizardlyFriend said:
i think that the police used justified force.
I agree, they did, but it doesn't make the guy any less dead.


EDIT: That's all I really wanted to say, the neg rep was just an added bonus.