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Headlines Kerry To GOP: Don't Tell Me What God Wants

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Boston Herald.Com said:
WASHINGTON - Sen. John F. Kerry yesterday attacked Republicans for having an ``orthodoxy of view'' and overly inserting religion into politics, accusing them of using God as a justification for appointing conservative judges.

``I am sick and tired of a bunch of people trying to tell me that God wants a bunch of conservative judges on the court and that's why we have to change the rules of the United States Senate,'' Kerry told a group of Bay State residents who traveled to Capitol Hill for U.S. Rep. Martin Meehan's annual legislative seminar.

The Bay State senator was referring to a possible GOP move to alter Senate rules that would prevent Democrats from filibustering President Bush's judicial nominees.

``I am sick and tired of (them saying) they somehow have a better understanding of Christianity, of the Judeo-Christian ethic, of values,'' Kerry added. ``We're talking about values? You show me where in the New Testament Jesus ever talked about the value of having taxes and taking money from poor people to give to the rich people in this country.''

The Bay State senator added that the Christian values and Catholic church he grew up with ``was a church of universality and understanding and true freedom of conscience'' and that there was never this kind of ``imposition of values'' into politics.

Quoting the Biblical line that ``faith without works is dead,'' Kerry cited budget cuts to schools, literacy programs and Medicaid as distorted values.
http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid=79532
 

chspaulwall

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I agree with Kerry?!?

1st, let me say I am in no way a Kerry supporter (nor am I a Bush supporter, for that matter) I am glad I wasn't old enough to vote in this election, because I probably would have chosen not to vote (which I think is unpatriotic for anyone who cares how their country is run) because I don't think Bush or Kerry should be president.
Now, as far as what Kerry spoke on, I agree with him. I don't believe we should set this country up to be run on Christian morals and values. Don't get me wrong. I am a Christian and personally would have no problem with it... however, I am also a realist. Example: my view on abortion. I am against the act itself, and wish it could be abolished. However, I do not believe you can deprive anyone in America the right to choice. I can form my own opinion about whether it is right or wrong, but I cant expect everyone to have the same opinion. Some argue that Christians in the US should not sit back and allow these things to happen. However, I believe that Christians, as well as everyone else, must give people the right to choose. Just like someone getting saved, we (christians) can't force that on them. We can hope that they do what we believe is the right thing, but we have to accept that some will choose another path.
Also, the anti-filibuster idea... another crazy idea by Bush that shouldn't be allowed, because then presidents will be getting more control over judicial nominations as Congress will not be able to block them as easily. However, as with all of Bush's other stupid ideas (such as the nomination of Bolton as U.N. ambassador and No Child Left Behind) it probably will be approved.
Kerry has some good points... too bad he couldn't pull off this kind of show back in the fall, might have helped him out. :cool:
 

chspaulwall

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very true

So true... along with the fact that most americans love amusing ppl even if they are idiots... hence, Bush.
 

2233boys

Yes you are!
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chspaulwall said:
1st, let me say I am in no way a Kerry supporter (nor am I a Bush supporter, for that matter) I am glad I wasn't old enough to vote in this election, because I probably would have chosen not to vote (which I think is unpatriotic for anyone who cares how their country is run) because I don't think Bush or Kerry should be president.
Now, as far as what Kerry spoke on, I agree with him. I don't believe we should set this country up to be run on Christian morals and values. Don't get me wrong. I am a Christian and personally would have no problem with it... however, I am also a realist. Example: my view on abortion. I am against the act itself, and wish it could be abolished. However, I do not believe you can deprive anyone in America the right to choice. I can form my own opinion about whether it is right or wrong, but I cant expect everyone to have the same opinion. Some argue that Christians in the US should not sit back and allow these things to happen. However, I believe that Christians, as well as everyone else, must give people the right to choose. Just like someone getting saved, we (christians) can't force that on them. We can hope that they do what we believe is the right thing, but we have to accept that some will choose another path.
Also, the anti-filibuster idea... another crazy idea by Bush that shouldn't be allowed, because then presidents will be getting more control over judicial nominations as Congress will not be able to block them as easily. However, as with all of Bush's other stupid ideas (such as the nomination of Bolton as U.N. ambassador and No Child Left Behind) it probably will be approved.
Kerry has some good points... too bad he couldn't pull off this kind of show back in the fall, might have helped him out. :cool:
I got to compliment you. You have a lot of mature views, and it is refreshing to see a young person with such a responsible and mature outlook on things.

I do however want to comment on something Kerry said.

John Kerry said:
``I am sick and tired of (them saying) they somehow have a better understanding of Christianity, of the Judeo-Christian ethic, of values,'' Kerry added. ``We're talking about values? You show me where in the New Testament Jesus ever talked about the value of having taxes and taking money from poor people to give to the rich people in this country.''
Jesus said pay Ceaser what he is due... Beyond that, Mr. Kerry, the class war Democrates try to wage year in and year out is as tired and as lame as Republicans claiming the moral high road.


John Kerry said:
The Bay State senator added that the Christian values and Catholic church he grew up with ``was a church of universality and understanding and true freedom of conscience'' and that there was never this kind of ``imposition of values'' into politics.
You are Catholic the Catholic Church is notoriously conservative and deems using condemns a sin, how exactly is that a church of universal understanding and freedom on conscience?


John Kerry said:
Quoting the Biblical line that ``faith without works is dead,'' Kerry cited budget cuts to schools, literacy programs and Medicaid as distorted values.
Nice line Mr. Kerry, take a look in the mirror... "Let he without sin Cast the first stone." "Judge not lest the be Judged"


On a side not, I wish John McCain or Joe Lieberman had won the precidency...
 

chspaulwall

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2233boys said:
On a side not, I wish John McCain or Joe Lieberman had won the precidency...
to be honest, i would prefer Slick Willy (Clinton) still being in office. not that i liked him very much, either, but he was a much more effective president than Bush has been... and who cares about the monica thing? there isnt a guy in america who can claim he'd turn down a bj, and he did represent us right? :cool: being a student, i mostly appreciate what Clinton did for education... especially now that Bush came along and put the education program in a rut with No Child Get Ahead... oh i meant No Child Left Behind :thumbsdn:

p.s. if Jeb Bush runs for republican and Hilary Clinton runs for democratic party in 2008... i'm moving
 

RageAgainst

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Bush shouldn't have the right to speak in the name of God. He does it to please the religious right but we all know he's not a true Christian. In fact, he is the Anti-Christ.

Texas had a record death penalties with him as a governor.

He launched an endless war that will be unprofitable for the common american and disastrous for the common iraqi (who will either die, be wounded and/or lose a relative and suffer financial damage).

His actions reflect the opposite of the main values found in the new testament (forgivness and love) : he got his revenge for the 9/11 events in the middle east by killing many times more civilians than the hijackers did. That's an eye for 20.

By doing so, he also contributed to the circle of hate between the middle east and the west by killing innocent people like the terrorists did. Because of him, the hatred between the islamic world and the west is worse than ever. And he claims it to be the will of God just like the terrorists rocked the towers in the name of Allah. Using a mythical entity to claim the right to kill people is wrong and criminal.

It's also as bad to do it in the name of freedom, and justice. The 5 year old who lost his mommy doesn't feel the freedom and justice Bush claimed for him. All he feels is sadness, but when he turns 12,13,14, this sadness will change into anger. Then there is a probability he becomes a terrorist, and kill some Americans, in the name of his dead family members, Allah, or both. The more people you bomb today, in the name of freedom and peace, the more fucked up the world will be tomorrow. That's how it is. Bush ruined peace. And the worst part about it all is.. The fucker got re-elected, proof that democracy combined with uninformation, media propaghanda and general ignorance is just as effective and dangerous as despotism when it comes to ruling like a total redneck.
 

chspaulwall

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RageAgainst said:
Bush shouldn't have the right to speak in the name of God. He does it to please the religious right but we all know he's not a true Christian. In fact, he is the Anti-Christ. Bush ruined peace.
as i've said before, i'm not a bush supporter... but two things:
I. Bush is not the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ will not "come to power" until the beginning of the Tribulation, which won't happen until the church as it is now is "taken up." Bush is just a typical American (very much like many ppl who are members here @ wtf) who should never have been allowed to run a state, much less a nation.
II. You cannot ruin what is not there already. Bush didn't ruin peace. He's only kept on with tradition. Most americans (or anyone around the world for that matter) dont truly desire peace. We think we do, we may even believe we do, but if we look at how we act and think there's no way we honestly and truly desire peace with our fellow man. One thing we all have to realize is that there will NEVER be world peace during our time. I as a Christian believe peace shall not come until the millenial reign and the afterward abolishment of Satan and all of his followers. Others have their own outlooks to peace in the near or distant future, but we cannot be naive enough to believe that we ourselves can EVER accomplish peace. We are too human for it.
 

RageAgainst

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chspaulwall said:
as i've said before, i'm not a bush supporter... but two things:
I. Bush is not the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ will not "come to power" until the beginning of the Tribulation, which won't happen until the church as it is now is "taken up."
anti-christ as in opposite of christ. His actions come in direct contradiction with his own "faith"

the Tribulation? give me a break. How about Eve popped out from Adam's rib

chspaulwall said:
II. I as a Christian believe peace shall not come until the millenial reign and the afterward abolishment of Satan and all of his followers. Others have their own outlooks to peace in the near or distant future, but we cannot be naive enough to believe that we ourselves can EVER accomplish peace. We are too human for it.
You do know that JohnPaul II himself said the devil was not much a meta-physical being as a state of mind? "satan" is the evil inside everyone... it's not something. What I meant is, Bush ruined any chances of peace and all the world's empathy towards his country by taking revenge and launching a bogus war against terror.
 

voiceofreason

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chspaulwall said:
II. You cannot ruin what is not there already. Bush didn't ruin peace.
Here's a NEW FLASH, Iraq WAS at Peace, Bush destroyed their country, and killed over 100,000 of their people over what Lies and Bullshit. Wake-the-fuck-up...
 

chspaulwall

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voiceofreason said:
Here's a NEW FLASH, Iraq WAS at Peace, Bush destroyed their country, and killed over 100,000 of their people over what Lies and Bullshit. Wake-the-fuck-up...
Iraq was at peace??? Since when does a dictatorship in which the leader kills hundreds of thousands of his own people qualify as peace?. I'm not justifying the war in Iraq, but how can you possibly believe Iraq was at peace?

And RageAgainst, as far as Bush's actions contradicting his own "faith" i don't dispute that. As Mark Twain (or Sam Clemons) once said "if Christ was here today there is one thing He would not be: a christian." Bush is one of many people who claim to be Christians and follow the will of God, but rarely do.
 
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Wait, did I die and go to Heaven? *checks pulse* No? Thank God there are other people with intelligence that actually back their views! I thought America was turning into blind Bush supporting war mongerers. Thank God, I was wrong. Rep to everyone who I haven't already repped today. :thumbsup:
 

voiceofreason

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chspaulwall said:
Iraq was at peace??? Since when does a dictatorship in which the leader kills hundreds of thousands of his own people qualify as peace?.
You're right, why don't we run out and take care of all the countries that have dictators that kills thousands of their people?

Sudan?

Why? Because Bush doesn't give a shit any non-oil producing country.

Don't be such a tool...
 

chspaulwall

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voiceofreason said:
You're right, why don't we run out and take care of all the countries that have dictators that kills thousands of their people?

Sudan?

Why? Because Bush doesn't give a shit any non-oil producing country.

Don't be such a tool...
If you read my post, i specifically said i didn't justify the war in Iraq in any way. I simply said Iraq was not at peace. Neither is Sudan, for that matter we could include the entire continent of Africa, half the middle east, and everywhere between russia and japan... I never said we should be going over and getting involved with all these countries... so i'm not a tool, i'm just not ignorant or naive enough to believe Iraq was EVER at peace :mfinger:
 

voiceofreason

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chspaulwall said:
If you read my post, i specifically said i didn't justify the war in Iraq in any way. I simply said Iraq was not at peace. Neither is Sudan, for that matter we could include the entire continent of Africa, half the middle east, and everywhere between russia and japan... I never said we should be going over and getting involved with all these countries... so i'm not a tool, i'm just not ignorant or naive enough to believe Iraq was EVER at peace :mfinger:
You started defending Bush's action in the Iraq war, earlier in this thread. Something like it's ok to start a war if things aren't peaceful there in the first place.

Whatever your message is - it's very muddled...
 

chspaulwall

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voiceofreason said:
You started defending Bush's action in the Iraq war, earlier in this thread. Something like it's ok to start a war if things aren't peaceful there in the first place.

Whatever your message is - it's very muddled...
1st off, quote me from earlier cuz i jus read through my posts in this thread and didnt find any place where i defended the war... but i am tired and may have missed it, so prove your point and then i'll understand
2nd since its muddled and apparently i've said something that contradicted myself, allow me to make my message clear:
I do not justify the war in Iraq in ANY WAY. Whether or not Saddam Hussein needed to be removed from power (which he did) and whether or not Iraq was at peace (which they weren't, although you claimed they were earlier in this thread and i can point out where you did) it was not our duty or GWB's responsibility to go over there and do anything about it, especially when the United Nations said no (not that we ever listen to them anyway). If I did, by any chance, defend Bush's actions, I can assure you it is the first time I have ever done so. I am against the war in Iraq. One other thing I would like to point out and add to my message now is that although I'm against the war, as I'm sure most of you are, don't any of you dare hold anything against our troops. This is turning into another Vietnam as we take our anger at Bush's stupidity out on our troops. Their duty is to follow orders which are given to them by our leaders because our leaders believe these orders are essential to defending us and our freedoms. They make the choice to serve, so anyone who says anything degrading about our troops fighting in Iraq is no better than Hussein himself. (if the troops have no honor and beat prisoners, kill innocent people on purpose, etc, thats another story)

If there's anything else you think I missed or i didn't make clear, feel free to ask... I definately will share with you how i feel if you want to know.