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Headlines Let's base our economy around a non-renewable resource.

Boycott

Soul Doubt
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#1
Whos idea was it to base the economy of the world on oil? Something that we have very little of left...

"Mankind's Annual Oil Consumption = more than one cubic mile


"Global oil use = 31.5 billion barrels per year
One barrel oil = 42 U.S. gallons
One cubic foot = 7.48 U.S. gallons
One cubic mile = 147.2 billion cubic feet

So, the volume of oil consumed by mankind annually
= (31.5 x 42) / (7.48 x 147.2)
= 1.2 cubic miles of oil per year.

Estimated worldwide oil reserves at the beginning of 2005 = 33 cubic miles."

If we take this information here, there's less than 33 years left of using oil... Who the hell said it was alright to throw the problems of today onto the shoulders of the next generation?

I think we may have seen this before - In Canada one of the reasons for the great depression was a HUGE amount of wheat being produced - too much - making the stock in wheat crash - a MAJOR export for Canada...

Now, if we run out of oil, oil stocks will crash ... That makes the economy die a slow, painful death.

Thanks a lot, whoever decided to base an economy off of a non-renewable resource. That was really smart of you. Because you're probably dead right now, and thought it would be nice to inflict a depression when the oil ran out. No one is going to act on this until it's happened.

No one is going to say, "Once were starting to run out, it's too late" (taken from the influenza thread) ... Stupid me and being in the screwed generation :(

Edit - Statistics taken from http://healthandenergy.com/oil_crisis.htm
 

jamesp

In Memory...
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#2
Good point, but keep in mind that mankind's oil consumption is increasing almost exponentially year by year. I give it 20 years tops.
 

Nailbomb

I'm just really nice.
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#3
When automobiles were invented, oil was practically an infinite resource. As the years passed, people ignored the depleting resources, thinking "Hey, by the time we get low, we'll be able to create it from scratch, or find a new resource that works just as well."

Boycott said:
Thanks a lot, whoever decided to base an economy off of a non-renewable resource. That was really smart of you. Because you're probably dead right now, and thought it would be nice to inflict a depression when the oil ran out. No one is going to act on this until it's happened.
Um, yeah. Considering automobiles were invented nearly a thousand years ago, I'm pretty sure he's dead.
 

jamesp

In Memory...
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#4
Nailbomb said:
When automobiles were invented, oil was practically an infinite resource. As the years passed, people ignored the depleting resources, thinking "Hey, by the time we get low, we'll be able to create it from scratch, or find a new resource that works just as well."



Um, yeah. Considering automobiles were invented nearly a thousand years ago, I'm pretty sure he's dead.
You mind revising this? Or shall we just disregard it as drug induced ravings of a madman?
 

Boycott

Soul Doubt
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#5
I was going to mention that too - and I was also going to mention that it isn't ONE person's fault that society is based off of oil, and that oil is used for other things other than cars such as electricity - but cars are a big contributor to why the economy is based off of oil.
 

tw33k

Theoretical Realist
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#6
Yeah, good point, but can you possibly believe that one person or group of people "decided" to base the world economy on oil? It's how the world evolves - we use the natural resources we have. Yes, oil powers our vehicles, runs our industries, heats our homes, creates the plastic that we use for everything. It was the most economical fuel we had, and still have. What could we have used that was more economical, leaving aside that we didn't have the technology for efficiently using solar, hydroelectric, or wind energy? Let's look at solar energy- presently it takes about eight years of output from a solar cell just to make back the electrical power originally used in the manufacture of the cell. What about hydroelectric, it's "free", and the largest renewable source of electricity, but to use it just to separate hydrogen to power all the vehicles in the US would take 15 times the current amount of hydroelectricity produced now. How many more dams can we build? And wind power? Please. Should we build more nuclear reactors? Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, 'nuff said. I agree with your premise that oil reserves will eventually run out, no surprise there, but we have used those reserves to get where we are technologically, and yes we definitely need to explore and develop renewable sources of energy RIGHT NOW, but bitchin about "someone dead" who sent us down this path is really off the mark. I mean WTF!
 

Nailbomb

I'm just really nice.
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#7
jamesp said:
You mind revising this? Or shall we just disregard it as drug induced ravings of a madman?
Bahaha, yeah, I meant a hundred years ago. Too many zeros! :happysad:
 

Boycott

Soul Doubt
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#8
tw33k, read my post above yours...
And as for wind power - It's actually more effective than you may think it is...
http://telosnet.com/wind/future.html

And actually, if you took the Cherlobyl and 3-mile island cases, you could probably make a decent, safe, nuclear power plant... You'd just need about 10 people watching it at a time to make sure it doesn't meltdown etc.
 

tw33k

Theoretical Realist
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#9
Maybe you believe the government when they say nuclear plants don't emit any radiation, or contaminate ground water, or the soil in surrounding areas of the cooling lakes. As for wind power, besides it being intermittent, it's woefully inefficient. The link you posted stated 2000 megawats capacity planned for 2001. Besides being a bit dated, lets look at how much electricity would be needed for fueling US vehicles with hydrogen. According to Southern California Edison a passenger car requires at least .46 KWhours per mile. For the whole US, that's 1.6 TRILLION KWhours. They could put up windmills from coast to coast and not come close to the required amount of electricity for vehicles alone.
 

Boycott

Soul Doubt
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#10
Did I say to replace ALL power with wind generated power?

You could use ethanol to power things as well, which cleans quite clean so better for environment ...

Ehh - I'm just kinda angry that people are saying "Yeah, there'll only be ____ years left in our oil supply", not realizing that when it runs out there WILL most likely be a depression, unless we somehow shift the focus of the world from oil to something else... It's actually kind of scary looking at how much oil we have left...
 

tw33k

Theoretical Realist
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#11
Boycott said:
Did I say to replace ALL power with wind generated power?

I was just making the point that all other alternate forms of energy are nowhere near as efficient as oil derivatives are now. I totally agree with you that we need to explore renewable forms of energy, but the technology is just not there yet. Plato said necessity is the mother of invention, and when mankind realizes it's neccessary efforts will be increased. It's also the law of supply and demand. As gasoline becomes more expensive, the general population will be forced to curtail any unneccessary fuel consumption, such as using gas guzzling SUVs, and cars with 300+ HP but get 12 mpg. I read the other day legislators are still trying to push gas taxes up to $2 to hasten that day. I can tell you I drive much less now than in the past. Sometimes people have to be forced to do what's best for them.
 

Mari

Hoodrat
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#12
Repeat after me.... Hydrogen Power will save our asses if we only let it... It's very efficient...
 

kindbud

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#13
Boycott said:
"Mankind's Annual Oil Consumption = more than one cubic mile
"Global oil use = 31.5 billion barrels per year
One barrel oil = 42 U.S. gallons
One cubic foot = 7.48 U.S. gallons
One cubic mile = 147.2 billion cubic feet

So, the volume of oil consumed by mankind annually
= (31.5 x 42) / (7.48 x 147.2)
= 1.2 cubic miles of oil per year.
Estimated worldwide oil reserves at the beginning of 2005 = 33 cubic miles."

If we take this information here, there's less than 33 years left of using oil... Who the hell said it was alright to throw the problems of today onto the shoulders of the next generation?
love the stats.
while its cheap(relative), they will reap it. it'll turn into a bidding war when demand surpasses supply(world-wide auction comes to mind for the last tankers) and supposedly we will be ready for the miracle alternative fuel because even hydro-tech could be cheaper at that point.

hummers will be dirt cheap, so our military will be stacked then, just no fuel.
 

kindbud

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#14
Nailbomb said:
Bahaha, yeah, I meant a hundred years ago. Too many zeros! :happysad:

since you wrote it out in words, it seems a zero wouldn't have mattered much.
 

tw33k

Theoretical Realist
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#15
Mari said:
Repeat after me.... Hydrogen Power will save our asses if we only let it... It's very efficient...
Actually hydrogen is not as efficient. A coal-fired powerplant is about 40% efficient. 140.8 KW-hours of coal energy is required to net 56.3 KW-hours of electricity to produce 1Kilogram of hydrogen. Hydrogen must be highly compressed to fit into the space available in a car - at least 4000psi. to liquefy hydrogen, using more energy. So 140.8 KW-hours from coal will get 17.4 KW-hours of electrical power from a fuel cell to run the car, which is 12% efficiency.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#16
With China's economy being by far the fastest growing in the world, the number of cars in China will abruptly rise. Millions and millions of people will buy a car for the first time in China, every year.

Currently, the demand for Oil is too big for what the oil industry is able to supply, hence the high prices. But as China's economy grows, the global demand for oil is going to increase dramatically, while the production supply is likely to remain the same. Oil prices will rise as China becomes more industrialized, UNLESS the oil producers invest into production, increasing supply, while the demand increases as well. But more production means sooner depletion of the ressource, so we're fucked anyways.

The only solution : first, hybrid cars, then, after a decade or so, a oil-free transportation method. If this is not going to happen, it will indeed cause a global economic crisis.

Oh tw33k, btw: www.hybridcars.com

edit: Also, oil industrials are corporations apply huge lobby pressure to World governments (especially the US) to keep oil the #1 ressource. They also bought or even sabotaged most of the alternative fuel car plans in the '90s.
 

Boycott

Soul Doubt
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#17
Mari said:
Repeat after me.... Hydrogen Power will save our asses if we only let it... It's very efficient...
Actually, someone put it in very good terms -> Hydrogen combusts to water ... Water in the atmosphere pretty much makes storms (through percipitation), and with more water in the clouds, the weather will be screwed over, so if hydrogen DOES take off, "Good bye blue skies"
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
7,540
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#18
Boycott said:
Actually, someone put it in very good terms -> Hydrogen combusts to water ... Water in the atmosphere pretty much makes storms (through percipitation), and with more water in the clouds, the weather will be screwed over, so if hydrogen DOES take off, "Good bye blue skies"
Aren't they gonna take the hydrogen from water? so there's not gonna be more water afterall..
 
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#20
Boycott said:
Actually, someone put it in very good terms -> Hydrogen combusts to water ... Water in the atmosphere pretty much makes storms (through percipitation), and with more water in the clouds, the weather will be screwed over, so if hydrogen DOES take off, "Good bye blue skies"
Also, a little known fact is that water vapour is the number one greenhouse gas in the world. So goodbye Greenland ice shelf!