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Fringe NOLA conspiracy?

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#1
Has anyone else heard this story, is it just paranoia?
I'm sure there's probably stuff about it at www.whatreallyhappened.com but i haven't had the heart to go there since Katrina hit.. too much info sometimes..



Some NOLA evacuees believe the levees were blown up to destroy poor black neighborhoods. Boing Boing readers may recall previous posts here recounting "man-in-the-'dome" comments to that effect, and the rumors appear widespread among some evacuee populations. They also appear in Ben Ehrenreich's LA Weekly story, "Baghdad on the Bayou", excerpt follows. (photo above: evacuees in Astrodome, not persons referenced in this story, by Jacob Appelbaum.)
In the Houston Astrodome last Saturday, I met a man named Robert. He invited me to take a seat beside him on a cot pushed against the wall - his home for the previous three days and the foreseeable future. Robert had lived in New Orleans for all of his 55 years, and was in the St. Bernard projects when Katrina washed it all away. "After the storm," he told me almost as soon as I sat down, "they blew the levees up so they could flood New Orleans." I asked him who "they" were.


"The money people," he answered. "The big money." "Why?" I asked.

Robert shook his head at my naiveté. "They had to get the poor people out so they could get the space." He gestured to the thousands of people in the dome around us, almost all of them African-American, crammed onto cots a few inches apart. "Now they got their space.

"We survived the storm," Robert went on. "We survived the wind and the rain. After the storm passed, the water started rising, and all you heard was 'Boom!' " The explosions, he said, were the levees blowing. "Ask any of these people. The hurricane wasn't that bad, but the opportunity came up."

It was a real estate grab, Robert explained - gentrification with a genocidal edge. And if he was more than slightly paranoid - he didn't want to tell me his last name, and grew visibly nervous when a white stadium employee began sweeping the floor within earshot a few feet away - his theory made a certain kind of sense, far more than any of the official excuses for government inaction. I would later hear similar speculations again and again in New Orleans, and saw them written on the walls. Just across the canal from the flooded 9th Ward, on a corner heavy with the scent of death, these words were scrawled across an abandoned garage: "Fuck Bush They Fucking Left Us Here Them Bitches Flooded Us . . . Them Bitches Killed Our People." (...)The first time he came across any soldiers, Washington told me, they trained their rifles on him. I heard the same complaint from others, and it was easy to imagine. Squads from the 82nd Airborne patrolled the deserted New Orleans streets as if playing at urban warfare, M-16s at the ready. Of course, they weren't playing. Armored cars bristling with weaponry swerved around the corners. Rifle barrels protruded from the windows of passing SUVs. At the staging ground at the base of Canal Street - the most secure spot in the city if not the entire nation - hundreds of officials milled about lugging shotguns and automatic rifles as if expecting the Mahdi Army. Among thousands of soldiers and police from every imaginable government agency, I twice saw groups of heavily armed men in khaki fatigues wearing T-shirts that read "Blackwater." A city was submerged, hundreds of thousands homeless, and the feds called in the mercenaries.


 
R

RedOctober

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#2
Here we go again... :mad:
It wouldn't surprise me at all.
 

voiceofreason

Seeker of Truth
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#3
Yes, of course!

Very desirable real estate, under water, under sea level, now with a layer of toxic sludge full of dead bodies...then we hope for a multi-billion dollar bailout, and in another 10-20 years, we'll have our "Dream City"...!

It's a master plan!!
 

Jung

???
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#4
Hahahah, thanks for the laugh. ;)
 

Darklight

Oppressing your posts...
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#5
for real... ok we want the real estate... so lets blow some levees and sink both poor and rich neighborhoods... its a retarted idea... anyone knows once the water is gone, habitat for humanity will roll in and rebuild the shit out of the place and hand it over to low income... if anything the new orleans area will be even more overran with the low income people... to think it was a plot for rich people to get land in an area that is now obviously vulnerable... its just hate lashing out at anything available..
 

ThomConspicuous

Inconspicuously Informal
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Refund Please... We want our money back! This Administration thingamajig sucks.

That's a pretty cool site...conspiracy theories or not...I found a link to a blog that contained this hilarious post:

Refund Please...

Dear Refund Department:


We want our money back! This Administration thingamajig sucks. The previous model, the blue one, was a much better product. This damned red one, although a little slower than the last model, seemed to work okay when we first got it, but then, when we started relying on it, it started messing up everything. Now it doesn't do a goddamn thing we were told it would do before investing in it. Oddly enough, it generally does the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do. It seems to have zero regard for its owners. If you asked me, I'd say the damned thing is posessed by an evil spirit, much like that notorious 1933 version from Germany. Whoever wrote the stinking owner's manual filled it with repetitive nonsensicle phrases like, "put food on your family" and "fish and humans can coexist peacefully". This thing has taken all our money and done God knows what with it. It has invaded and looted the property of one of our neighbors and seems to be making plans to do the same with at least one other neighbor. It has killed quite a few of our children, and it has destroyed our beautiful back yard with pollutants and flood water. It has cost us our jobs and our retirements. This thing has taunted our enemies and alienated all our friends. Our former friends even go out of their way to avoid helping us. We fear it may have wrecked our entire future and we demand a full refund. Please send someone to pick this faulty thing up quickly, before it blows up the whole damned neighborhood. We're going back the old blue model.



Thank you,

The Voter Family

-PS: Please HURRY!
 

JLXC

WTF's Official Conspiracy Fanatic
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#7
People who are rich are easy to understand, they just want a lot more money than they currently have.

Blowing the levee's and flooding the whole city, is not a real great way to make more money. The whole place is a below sea level nightmare, and will only get worse. It will have to be abandoned in the next few years due to the sea level rising and the hurricans getting worse. Rich people do their homework before doing conspiracy things.

This sounds like more "The whites are out to get us" bullshit.

Now they DO have a case that the relief efforts sucked because it was a bunch of poor people. Race has less to do with it than your economic status IMO. I wish they'd figure that out and channel that rage for the right reasons.
 

Jung

???
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#8
JLXC said:
The whole place is a below sea level nightmare, and will only get worse. It will have to be abandoned in the next few years due to the sea level rising and the hurricans getting worse.
:rolleyes:

That's almost as funny as the first post in this thread. We've had the technology to reclaim land for quite a while (see Holland), we just couldn't get funding for it or levees. Now we will. New Orleans won't be going anywhere. And that's not just me being optimistic.
 

JLXC

WTF's Official Conspiracy Fanatic
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#9
junglizm said:
:rolleyes:

That's almost as funny as the first post in this thread.
I don't think it is at all. But you're probably right, I'm sure they'll spend billions and billions to get that city back on it's feet, to see it knocked down again and again by Cat 3+ hurricanes and the rising ocean. Americans would much rather do that than have good health care, or help the poor, or anything useful. I'm sorry Jung, but I see it as a huge waste to fix up the place. Times change, geography changes, but human stupidity is in effect forever.

It's not like I'm saying anything controvertial, many scientists have been warning of this for years.
 

Jung

???
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#10
JLXC said:
But you're probably right.
I know I'm right.

I'm sure they'll spend billions and billions to get that city back on it's feet, to see it knocked down again and again by Cat 3+ hurricanes and the rising ocean.
This was a fluke man, nothing like this has ever happened before. The only reason the city flooded this time was because one part of the levee was expanded incorrectly, and one wasn't built properly, but that's going to be fixed. (And the rest of our levees held like they were supposed to.) Sad to say it, but it took a fucking disaster to make people realize that we NEED the funding for those levees. We've been asking for years too.

This won't happen again, and New Orleans won't be going anywhere, and thank god our citizens and officials aren't as narrow minded as those who expect us to just up and more an entire city.
Americans would much rather do that than have good health care, or help the poor, or anything useful.
Are you fucking kidding me? Useful? You mean like getting a couple million people back into their homes and businesses? Yeah, that's not useful at all! Lets just tell the "hey too bad, but you can't go home there, guy." :rolleyes:
I'm sorry Jung, but I see it as a huge waste to fix up the place.
Too bad your opinion doesn’t amount to anything. Louisiana doesn’t give a fuck what the country thinks; we will rebuild our city! Thanks for helping guys, but you can kindly fuck off if you expect us to move an entire city just because you don’t approve. The US needs New Orleans, our industry and our ports. Our city is one of THE most cultural and historic landmarks in the country; you don’t just pick it up and move it… and where the hell would you move a city the size of New Orleans? Yeah, everyone “thinks” it’s a bad idea to rebuild but can’t offer shit for valid alternatives. Nice.
but human stupidity is in effect forever.
That’s about the only thing you’re right about. In fact, we discussed this on another (New Orleans) forum earlier. Since it’s a closed registration site, I’ve mirrored the thread here.
 

JLXC

WTF's Official Conspiracy Fanatic
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#11
I know I'm hitting close to home, and close to the disaster with this Jung. I'm actually not trying to be an asshole, so at least hear me out. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

I am saying N.O. and some places near the coast are in actual danger of becoming Ocean, being below current sea levels or damn close. If the weather and the sea do anything like they have been saying for years, about global warming, and the ice cap melt, it wont matter what anyone "wants" to happen, they will be underwater. It may not happen, anything is possible it seems, but considering the scientific findings about these things, and what just happened, it could be more likely than people want. I don't think it's a fluke, I feel it's the future.

Americans are stubborn. They will say "damn the world changing, I want it this way!" and they could end up spending billions rebuilding areas that in just a few short years wont even be there. That would be a horrible waste. Let's be fair to N.O. It was in the top 10 poorest cities in the county, and until the disaster, nobody gave a shit if those people had food, or medicine, or anything else for that matter. So it takes a fucking disaster to want to help people? Shit, the govt could declare all the deeply poverty stricken areas of the country as a fucking disaster and fix that shit up, why wait for floods and hurricanes?!?! That's what I'm saying about that part.

They could spend all that money giving people homes and building jobs all over the country and let the people go there. They wont. Don't worry, they'll try and rebuild and spend all the money and so forth, nobody is listening to me. I know that. If I'm right, and the scientists who've warned about this for years are right, it's all wasted effort. I'm sorry, but it is. I'm not just talking N.O. I'm talking about the coastal areas like it as well. I understand many people would rather die than have to move, even when they can, it actually happened in N.O. Don't even think I mean all the people were in that boat, I'm sure most of them weren't but there were plenty on the news who were examples of what I'm talking about.


Look I'm not saying "Fuck all those people, who cares." Not in the least. I'm just saying that they could use that money to help the displaced people , but maybe a little bit higher than below sea level, right on the coast. I'm also saying that why do people fucking wait for disasters to actually help the poor? Why is it so different for people to be hungry and starving and dying in N.O. after the hurricane, and in many other cities with no natural disasters where the same thing is happening. I'm not stupid enough to not see that N.O. is much worse at the moment than some areas, duh, but the same underlying problems exist all over the USA. It's like nobody gives a shit until nature stomps humans, when people are doing it, well they don't count I guess. I'm oversimplifying things to some degree, I know that too, still the underlying truth rings out.

I'm not saying they should move N.O., they should maybe think about moving to higher ground. It is quite possible that mans helping global warming will have many horrible effects on those areas, including putting them underwater or making hurricans worse. Humans may have to adapt to what they've caused, like it or not.

I feel for the people effected, it's not their fault at all. I just think it's important to care enough to spend billions helping everyone in such shitty circumstances, not just on holidays and when there's natural disasters. I guess that's just too much to ask.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#12
void said:
Has anyone else heard this story, is it just paranoia?
I'm sure there's probably stuff about it at www.whatreallyhappened.com but i haven't had the heart to go there since Katrina hit.. too much info sometimes..



Some NOLA evacuees believe the levees were blown up to destroy poor black neighborhoods. Boing Boing readers may recall previous posts here recounting "man-in-the-'dome" comments to that effect, and the rumors appear widespread among some evacuee populations. They also appear in Ben Ehrenreich's LA Weekly story, "Baghdad on the Bayou", excerpt follows. (photo above: evacuees in Astrodome, not persons referenced in this story, by Jacob Appelbaum.)
In the Houston Astrodome last Saturday, I met a man named Robert. He invited me to take a seat beside him on a cot pushed against the wall - his home for the previous three days and the foreseeable future. Robert had lived in New Orleans for all of his 55 years, and was in the St. Bernard projects when Katrina washed it all away. "After the storm," he told me almost as soon as I sat down, "they blew the levees up so they could flood New Orleans." I asked him who "they" were.


"The money people," he answered. "The big money." "Why?" I asked.

Robert shook his head at my naiveté. "They had to get the poor people out so they could get the space." He gestured to the thousands of people in the dome around us, almost all of them African-American, crammed onto cots a few inches apart. "Now they got their space.

"We survived the storm," Robert went on. "We survived the wind and the rain. After the storm passed, the water started rising, and all you heard was 'Boom!' " The explosions, he said, were the levees blowing. "Ask any of these people. The hurricane wasn't that bad, but the opportunity came up."

It was a real estate grab, Robert explained - gentrification with a genocidal edge. And if he was more than slightly paranoid - he didn't want to tell me his last name, and grew visibly nervous when a white stadium employee began sweeping the floor within earshot a few feet away - his theory made a certain kind of sense, far more than any of the official excuses for government inaction. I would later hear similar speculations again and again in New Orleans, and saw them written on the walls. Just across the canal from the flooded 9th Ward, on a corner heavy with the scent of death, these words were scrawled across an abandoned garage: "Fuck Bush They Fucking Left Us Here Them Bitches Flooded Us . . . Them Bitches Killed Our People." (...)The first time he came across any soldiers, Washington told me, they trained their rifles on him. I heard the same complaint from others, and it was easy to imagine. Squads from the 82nd Airborne patrolled the deserted New Orleans streets as if playing at urban warfare, M-16s at the ready. Of course, they weren't playing. Armored cars bristling with weaponry swerved around the corners. Rifle barrels protruded from the windows of passing SUVs. At the staging ground at the base of Canal Street - the most secure spot in the city if not the entire nation - hundreds of officials milled about lugging shotguns and automatic rifles as if expecting the Mahdi Army. Among thousands of soldiers and police from every imaginable government agency, I twice saw groups of heavily armed men in khaki fatigues wearing T-shirts that read "Blackwater." A city was submerged, hundreds of thousands homeless, and the feds called in the mercenaries.


Robert's testimony is not valid to justify the conspiracy theory itself.. He's saying that the storm was not that bad, but that's dumb to just assume, because new orleans is so big, the hurricane will hit certain parts of the city harder and others more smoothly (but still fucked up). The "wall" around the eye of the storm is where the winds are hardest, maybe it happened to break the levees.

I read in the newspaper today some interesting article. During the last budget the federal commission (or agency or i dont remember) in charge of managing infrastructures asked 241 million (if I recall well) of the federal budget and Bush only gave.. something like 90. google "katrina budget levees". Someone even warned washington that the levees could break if a force 4-5 hurricane passed by. Still, they didn't send the money to fix the levees, to prepare for that. Some ingeneers were smart enough to figure out that levees + under water level = omfg don't break the levees and tried to warn them that the danger vs probability of such a scenario was scary.

After katrina, Bush had trouble finding enough troops to manage the crisis because most of them are in Iraq.
 

jamesp

In Memory...
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I can't believe what Im reading. People suggesting we don't rebuild New Orleans, because this might happen again. The human race is the dominate race in this planet because of our resiliency. There is no way we won't rebuild NO. And when jung said "see Holland" he meant look at the Netherlands, over 16 Million people in the Netherlands are 24' or more below sea level. Know, what they did? They invested billions, and built some serious sea walls and levees. What you people are saying, in effect, is "man, that sucks, but it could happen again, better not rebuild. Okay guys, get comfortable where you are, NO is a lost cause." This is complete pussy bullshit. I know if Birmingham was flooded, or almost completely destroyed by a natural disaster I would be there as soon as I could, rebuild my home. And don't start spouting out "oceans are rising bullshit", they aren't rising by any margin that isn't easily controllable by a well built sea wall and levee system.
 
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how can you just NOT rebuild one of the US's largest cities? Let's just bulldoze it and forget it was even there.

Jesus man, my family lives there. So we're just gonna burn up the memories and move on?

as soon as nagin can straighten his ass up and realize that we can't have a halfass patched levy to protect a bowl city that the US depends on, we'll see some progress.
 

Jung

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#15
slemaire195 said:
as soon as nagin can straighten his ass up and realize that we can't have a halfass patched levy to protect a bowl city that the US depends on, we'll see some progress.
I think a lot of peopel don't stop to think about that; those levees were patched half-assed before Nagin was even in office. Nagin actually asked for more funding, yet people blame him for this without even knowing what happenened. I guess I just don't get the 'fuck Nagin' bandwagon...


jamesp said:
I can't believe what Im reading. People suggesting we don't rebuild New Orleans, because this might happen again. The human race is the dominate race in this planet because of our resiliency. There is no way we won't rebuild NO. And when jung said "see Holland" he meant look at the Netherlands, over 16 Million people in the Netherlands are 24' or more below sea level. Know, what they did? They invested billions, and built some serious sea walls and levees. What you people are saying, in effect, is "man, that sucks, but it could happen again, better not rebuild. Okay guys, get comfortable where you are, NO is a lost cause." This is complete pussy bullshit. I know if Birmingham was flooded, or almost completely destroyed by a natural disaster I would be there as soon as I could, rebuild my home. And don't start spouting out "oceans are rising bullshit", they aren't rising by any margin that isn't easily controllable by a well built sea wall and levee system.
My thouhgts exactly. We rebuilt after floods, tornado and earthquake, I'll be damned if we shy away from this.





http://slate.msn.com/id/2126065/
The Spirit of New Orleans
What hasn't washed away.

By Nancy Lemann
Posted Friday, Sept. 9, 2005, at 4:09 PM PT

A remoteness both geographical and psychic isolates New Orleans and accounts partly for its exotic strangeness. It is unusual, and that is its mark of distinction. In that atmosphere of isolation, a lot of things have time to develop. A lot of personality, a lot of talent. Some desperation. The climate is enervating. There is a certain amount of suffering involved. Most people know that it is a city of sharp divisions. There is a downtrodden population that was stricken long before the hurricane. That is a scandal that has always been around the South, after all, having originated there. It is a feature of New Orleans as defining as its climate.

People ask me about the city and its culture. What I have just described is its culture. There is a small strata of society possessed of privilege and dynamism. There is that vast downtrodden population. In some respects, the latter historically propped up the former. The heart and soul of New Orleans was always the black people. There is an elegance on that side of the coin equal to anything on the other.

Being swept away by a cataclysm has left total chaos. Everyone's life is changed by the shock, even from a distance. We can't yet discern the magnitude of the impact for all. So far, it appears that the core historic architecture of New Orleans is standing. The owners in these neighborhoods are dispersed to various other cities of the South, with an overwhelming majority in Baton Rouge and Houston, where many local businesses have set up offices. They must remain there for an as-yet indeterminate amount of months. They didn't go to the Superdome. They did not have to endure that total loss of everything you could possess except your spirit. But being swept away by a cataclysm is a unique experience they all share. They all had to leave, sooner or later, and for some it was later rather than sooner.

My people in New Orleans had hurricane fatigue (as the New York Times so accurately called it). They were burned last time by going along with the evacuation order and had vowed never to do it again: two days in gridlocked traffic with family members and pets crammed into one car and then crammed into one motel room in Mississippi somewhere—and then nothing happened. Or what usually happens happened: The air turns green, the leaves swirl around in the wind, then everything becomes very still, the golf course looks like a ballroom, there is a sensation of nameless excitement, and then at the last minute the hurricane diverts and goes somewhere else, usually to Biloxi.

But this was not like that. My father and stepmother battened down the hatches and at first they were all right. My father, being a bit of a mad genius type, had a huge generator on a strategically built platform mathematically rigged to surmount rising flood tides according to various water levels. They had power. They survived the storm itself without flooding in their neighborhood. A friend, also an elderly gent, walked over with his dog to stay with them as his anxious children somehow directed him to do from afar. They had dinner. They had air conditioning in three rooms. My father smoked cigars. My stepmother displayed her nerves of steel and my father retained his stoicism. But then the levees broke and the water kept rising. A ghostly voice appeared on the radio telling everyone to evacuate, yet we could only think: How?

After two days of anxiety from afar—and nerves of steel within—cooler minds than mine helped galvanize them and plan their escape on the one operable route out of town. My dynamic stepsisters contacted an ex-Green Beret down the street who organized a small convoy and other details. He cleared downed trees in the way and established the route out. He was meant to accompany them, but at the last minute, after getting them ready, stayed behind to help others. They made their way down Tchoupitoulas to the bridge over the river that was then still open, but is now closed, and made their way to Houston.

By the time they left there was no other traffic on the road. When they got to Houston they could finally crack. I was filled with ecstatic relief for six hours at their safe removal. Then I crashed.

My father focused on getting cigars and going back to work, and that was reassuring. If you're ever swept away by a cataclysm, bring your cigars; that helps. We are fixing to celebrate his 80th birthday. I have always admired devotion to the city like his. Another thing about New Orleans is that people tend to stay there through many generations. That also fosters a distinct personality. This is not the first crisis people there have been through. These are stalwart souls. Some may now relocate—we really don't know yet. I did that long ago. In which case you're like any exile: You still have a memory and a dream, a knowledge and understanding, and that can still be a huge part of your life.

Black and white alike, there are a lot of people in New Orleans who have never flown in a plane before, or even left town. It is curious, but even among the sophisticated you will find in New Orleans the type of person who has been out of town once in his life, for two weeks. And yet this type of person can be more worldly than the Ancient Mariner. And then there's the type who has been everywhere and who seeks to travel far, but has never had another home, and could not imagine one.

Sometimes it is more daring to stay home. In the case of New Orleans, where conditions are adverse and isolated, I always considered it more daring to stay than to go. I'd say you have to be fairly madcap. But most are waiting only to return. And I hardly need add that your basic New Orleans person is fairly madcap. To relocate is not an option that most who have options would consider. The attachment is too deep. They are staunch and stoic people, despite their famed gaiety. A spirit can travel—it has traveled with me—and that is something you can take with you. But there will still be a place. They would not give it up.

Nancy Lemann is the author of Lives of the Saints, The Ritz of the Bayou, and Sportsman's Paradise.
:thumbsup:
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#16
Well, I live in The Netherlands, and I know one of the problems we also had, is that soil goes down when laid dry.
That's what happened in NOLA.
It would be wise to rebuild the city in a way that part of it is built on dikes. Especially the highway, but also the electricity works and other important infrastructure.
For the rest dikes can be put around the city, and pumps to clear away water if necessary.
Imagine the city as a ship with bulkheads.
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#17
more fuel to this fire courtesy of Louis Farrakhan..

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/091205-ad-wcnc-farrakhan.4fb21767.html

Minister Louis Farrakhan was in Charlotte Monday to rally support for his Millions More March. However, he did have some choice words about the response to Hurricane Katrina victims some of whom are staying at the Charlotte Coliseum.

"I heard from a very reliable source who saw a 25 foot deep crater under the levee breach. It may have been blown up to destroy the black part of town and keep the white part dry," Farrakhan said.

President Bush said Monday that Hurricane Katrina did not discriminate and neither will recovery efforts.