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Fringe Pentagon 9/11, serious thread

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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Ok so you can track cars equipped with onstar by satellites but you can't track a fucking plane. Great, makes so much sense.
 

Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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RageAgainst said:
Ok so you can track cars equipped with onstar by satellites but you can't track a fucking plane. Great, makes so much sense.
im pretty sure that the cars are sending messages back too. its not just the satelite sending messages to the car.
 

countrygrl

Highly Excitable
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Didn't say that they can't they just don't...usually. They didn't need to until Sept 11. Besides that GPS is available to everyone with the correct equipment. Until a few years ago the govt used Selective Availabilty to keep the accuracy of GPS down so that it couldn't be used by "the enemy" against them. In 2000 they "unscrambled" it so that people could get better accuracy out of handhelds.

GPS alone doesn't track cars. There is an additional device in the car that transmits the data, coordinates from the GPS back to the people who provide the service.

In 2003 the FAA approved the use of satellites. It will be years before all planes have them.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-07-10-space-usat_x.htm


May not make sense but....
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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Well OK. A few things to go back over.

Yes, a LOT of shit got fuckered that day. People weren't watching what they were doing, people weren't communicating etc...

Now, an AWACs can spot damn near anything in the air. However, these weren't the only planes in the air that day and finding one of them (flight 77) wouldn't be easy. To complicate matters, the AWACs is a military aircraft and probably didn't have that days civilian flight paths to begin with. So they would be hunting in the dark.

A 5 minute ready drill is good. But you're talking about an aircraft carrier during the cold war. We were at low alert that day with no real enemies capable of launching a surprise attack on the continental US (or so we thought). We didn't have ready planes sitting on the tarmack hooked up to a generator with a pilot sitting in the cockpit. We got caught with our pants down.

You can track anything from space with the proper satelite. Of course you have to know where it is first and have a satelite in place in order to track it. Since your average photo would cover what, a few hundred thousand square miles it'd be difficult at best to find and follow one little itty bitty 757. Or even 4 of them.

All in all, there's no great mystery to how a 757 hit the pentagon 40 minutes later. The guys in charge were in the shitter. Nobody was paying attention. The military wasn't prepared, nobody told the military what was going on, the FAA didn't even know what was going on anyway. The system was broken. The system is still probably broken.
 

voiceofreason

Seeker of Truth
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UberSkippy said:
The system was broken. The system is still probably broken.
But we have spent several billion dollars to make sure everyone takes their shoes off before they get on the plane...

Our tax dollars at work...
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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voiceofreason said:
But we have spent several billion dollars to make sure everyone takes their shoes off before they get on the plane...

Our tax dollars at work...
And your coat. But not your glasses. And you can't lock your luggage when you travel. Because they pay the baggage handlers jack diddly shit so we can trust them not to fuck with our stuff.

But don't worry about that. You're SAFER! You don't have to worry about sitting next to a guy with dog shit on his shoes the whole flight anymore.
 

countrygrl

Highly Excitable
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No, you just have to worry about the snitty little dog, that the person sitting next to you has in a cage, shitting in it.


Off topic..I know...maybe I'll start a thread about obnoxious things on planes.
 

dzaykim

Toss my salad
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Anyone know the url for the flash documentary of this thing?

I saw it a couple months ago, don't remember where,
but it had all the controversial info.
 

_Kitana_

Angel of Death
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dzaykim said:
Anyone know the url for the flash documentary of this thing?

I saw it a couple months ago, don't remember where,
but it had all the controversial info.
read the thread
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
Well.. We would like to stay serious.

When I saw it happen, the WTC attack I mean, the first thought that came to my mind was the similarity with the Oklahoma bombing.
Because it made no sense at all.
Typical for fascist groups, that are probably supported by part of the military or police. An attack, so that the public opinion rushes to the "strong man".

And that is what happened.
Strangely enough a lot of measures seemed to be ready before it all happened. Bush signed a lot of bills right after the 911 attacks!

So, naturally, it is very hard for the world not to think about a conspiracy plot. The story has far too much loose ends!
A very bad Hollywood scenario.
 

Descent

Hella Constipated
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_Kitana_ said:
Thanks for the link to flash i been looking for this video forever. This is something that scared me, cause i thought the same thing when it first happened. I wonder if the pane had blown up... If it had bombs on it. I seen the planes hit the trade centers, i seen the crash plane on the ground heading for the white house.

No way could they get a missile on the plane...

I am almost certain that our government would not attack itself. It simply not economically feasible. Nor would they use it for a reason to attack Saddam when they didn't link it to him. To say that Osama bin Laden is falsified is a joke as well. Since the man is known to exist and has tons of money. You would have to say that this conspiracy has been going on for a huge number of years with tons of different presidents. That is to many people knowing about the plan for it to be affective and kept secret. I mean that theory doesn’t hold water…

SO….

Where is this plane? Did the hijacker decided “hey I don't want to die” and land it somewhere else? Are these people being held hostage ? Why is the government being so hush hush about it? Was this part of the terrorist plans?

If the terrorist are trying to trick the government, is our president and government just playing along… to keep hidden a deep secret hidden mission. Why would the terrorist even want a plane or it’s passengers? Were they trying to hold them hostage against our government and the US had to let them die…. ? What hit the building then?

My guess is that the terrorist used a pretty powerful weapon that our government doesn’t want to tell the us they have for some reason. Maybe for our own protection who to say? Maybe if they gave out details like this it would harm America more or maybe it wouldn’t. Something defiantly hit the pentagon… and it didn’t come from America or it’s government. First off the pentagon would not attack itself….


Jesus Kitana, do you side with those assholes on everything?

I'm very sure that people who (literally) live in caves, and fucking over 52 wives and camels are capable of designing a computer-guided weapon that can travel across the globe, and synchronize perfectly with an attack already in progress that was started by people over 10,000 miles away.

Think, Kitana, THINK. It's good for you.

Besides, Pentagon destruction = more patriotism, that's a valueable government building.

And if "the pentagon would not attack itself" ( :rolleyes: ), well, guess what, the end justifies the means.

Frankly I couldn't give a shit if it was a missle. It was a crappy missle if it only did that much damage.

It's like comparing an Estes Model Rocket to a Quest model rocket - one actually works, the other sucks.
 

YUCK FOU!!!

Critical Update Notification Tool.
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jam6549 said:
what hit it then?
edit: ever heard of landing, dumbass

EdIt: You could try making your point without the name calling. Or is name calling the only way you know how to debate? Lets keep that shit in Bait & Tackle.

~Max
FWNED!
 

Mari

Hoodrat
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RageAgainst said:
some people say f-16.. or a missile.. definitely not a boeing 757.




PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng


WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THESE PEOPLE
Guys I have an ingenius idea. The internet has tons of ways to search for people. I say we put them to use....
 

tzedek

Original Member
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anyone with half a shred of common sense can tell a plane didnt hit that building. this thread is pointless
 

Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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tzedek said:
anyone with half a shred of common sense can tell a plane didnt hit that building. this thread is pointless
i would love to argue that with you since your only argument is "common sense", but last time i argued this it went on for pages
 

I Hate The FCC

Homo est Deus
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WizardlyFriend said:
i would love to argue that with you since your only argument is "common sense", but last time i argued this it went on for pages
Perhaps this thread will have the honor of being longer than the thread where Cuddles showed her boobies? :(

Where is the happysad smilie?!?!?! :mad: :thumbsdn:
 

Boycott

Soul Doubt
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I stopped reading on page 6 - but the arguments were just going back and forth...

I used to play a game called Asheron's call - in it I was the leader of a guild and my vassal "Killer Blades" and his dad "Dane Graywolf" lived in Northern Oregan. Dane worked at the Pentagon. The day 9/11 happened, I actually rushed home to get onto my computer to check if he was alright, as he was complaining how he had to work that day...

"I was a few rooms beside the under construction part when the plane hit" -- This is exactly what he said...

He was saying about how extensive the damage was etc. and he saw plane parts all around when he got outside... This is the best proof that *I* have to run on that this actually happened