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Headlines Pursuit of Happiness; bill of rights

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dustinzgirl

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#1
I had to write on the pursuit of happiness being an economic right. I wanted to share this exerpt with the intelligent few of this forum, because it is important to understanding the foundation of American economics and the right to pursue happiness via economic stability.


Franklin D. Roosevelt
“The Economic Bill of Rights”
Excerpt from 11 January 1944 message to Congress on the State of the Union

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It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

source: The Public Papers & Addresses of Franklin D. Roosevelt (Samuel Rosenman, ed.), Vol XIII (NY: Harper, 1950), 40-42 www.worldpolicy.org
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#2
Roosevelt is a Communist

Roosevelt is a Communist. The most important right is the right of property, to keep what you earn and work for by the sweat of your brow. All these other "rights" which are not really rights at all but a bunch of bullshit propaganda by Roosevelt, (the dirty sheepfucker), all these other "rights" are just excuses to raise taxes and erode the right of people to keep what they have earned and worked for.

If you dont have property, you dont have the American Dream, and you dont have a functional economy. You have communism. Property rights trump liberal feel good bullshit.

And you certainly can be free without those rights. People need to be free to fail. It is what they are best at. People will always fail, and you cannot legislate failure and poverty away. It just is. The smart ones will find a way to climb back up, and the dumb ones, shouldnt even be breathing my oxygen anyway.
 

dustinzgirl

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#3
ThirdDegreeBurn said:
Roosevelt is a Communist. The most important right is the right of property, to keep what you earn and work for by the sweat of your brow. All these other "rights" which are not really rights at all but a bunch of bullshit propaganda by Roosevelt, (the dirty sheepfucker), all these other "rights" are just excuses to raise taxes and erode the right of people to keep what they have earned and worked for.

If you dont have property, you dont have the American Dream, and you dont have a functional economy. You have communism. Property rights trump liberal feel good bullshit.

And you certainly can be free without those rights. People need to be free to fail. It is what they are best at. People will always fail, and you cannot legislate failure and poverty away. It just is. The smart ones will find a way to climb back up, and the dumb ones, shouldnt even be breathing my oxygen anyway.

Communism was a great idea ran by very bad people. Without economic rights, you would not HAVE a right to EARN an income, duh. People in communist russia owned property. Did you even read it?
 

RageAgainst

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#5
ThirdDegreeBurn said:
The smart ones will find a way to climb back up, and the dumb ones, shouldnt even be breathing my oxygen anyway.
Hi, nietzsche.


Anyways... DG, it's all good and fun to want higher standards of living for everyone. However... It cannot happen. If there is filthy rich people, there will be filthy poor people. That's how capitalism works. And even if it could, that would lead to more consumption, more production, more waste, more pollution.

The US already consumes a shitload of the world's natural ressources, leaving jackshit for the poor countries. So I'm against an increase in consumption, even if it means I would have to consume less.
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#6
dustinzgirl said:
Communism was a great idea ran by very bad people. Without economic rights, you would not HAVE a right to EARN an income, duh. People in communist russia owned property. Did you even read it?
Communism was a HORRIBLE idea. Communism was concieved of by the same people who cheat on tests and commit credit card fraud. Look, I've heard the same shit you have about how it was a great idea executed poorly. The fact is that is complete and utter BULLSHIT. The most fundamental right of all time is the right to keep your belongings. You dont have to share your toys if you dont want to. Everyone gets their own space, and they can leave and go somewhere else freely to pursue their dreams. But you CANNOT steal someone elses property to do so. And institutionalizing that is just the victory of all those fuckers who would rather have things given to them than work for it, regardless of who has to be dispossessed and killed to get it.

If you are really smart and you go make a company and it goes public and you make a million dollars, that is your million dollars. You should be FREE to do with that money that you earned as you please. You should not be FORCED to give half of it to the Govt / Poor people. That is the oppossite of Freedom. And if you choose Communism, then you have to give ALL OF IT to them. This is not good. This is the end of all human society as it has been since the beginning, since people caught their own food and shared it if they felt like it.

"Without economic rights, you would not have the right earn an income."

Okay wow you are an idiot. Roosevelts rights had nothing to do with the right to earn an income... I think eveyrone already had that. In fact the Govt. has nothign to do with that. If I get a job that is between me and my employer, and in contract law I am free to do as I please. I was already free to do so in fact. Roosevelt intends to restrict my right to earn an income by imposing property taxes to pay for his expansive social welfare programs.

As for owning property, Communist Russia did not make it all the way to Marx's utopian communism, because it failed so spectacularly and so quickly. In the final stage, money and property are elminated. People get things from the state, and only from the state. And everyone gets the same thing. Nobody owned companies in Communist Russia except for the state. If you tried to make one, you would be killed or forced out of business or the govt. would just take it over.

In communist Russia, you didnt even have the right to choose what to sell your goods for or to choose how much to pay a worked. These are REAL fundamental economic rights, that I can make whatever deal I want, if the person I deal with agrees to the deal. This is contract law, closely related to property law. Communism does away with all that; all prices and wages are fixed by the govt and you will be jailed or killed if you violate their rules.
 

RageAgainst

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#7
Another completely different point:

This text is based upon the fact that in order to achieve happiness, you need material goods. Now, I think all you need to be happy is your basic needs filled (food and all). Once you have that, you make your own happiness with social relations and your environnement.

I wouldn't be happier with a porsche and a huge TV. Entertainment is not happiness.
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#8
Exactly Rage, exactly. People aren't entitled to TV's and all that shit, that is absurd, and that is what a substantial portion of Welfare $$$ goes to in America. You arent entitled to a job either. You are lucky to get a job if you are qualified and work hard. This Roosevelt bullshit flies in the face of any reasonable perspective on the world, and yet so many dumbass liberals eat it right up. And now its institutionalized in America.

And you know what, all these fucking deficits are because of Roosevelt and his dumbass welfare programs. Roosevelt is going to sink our country in debt and make us all poor, and then the terrorists will take over the world and kill us all.

Well maybe not that last part (hehe) but the way things are going, you cant be too sure.

And if anyone blames Bush for the deficits, they will be partly right, because he should not have increased medicare and all that shit. But Roosevelt & followers (Lyndon FUCKING Johnson) are far more responsible, plus all those idiots in Congress with thier pork barrel bullshit.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#9
ThirdDegreeBurn said:
Communism was a HORRIBLE idea. Communism was concieved of by the same people who cheat on tests and commit credit card fraud. Look, I've heard the same shit you have about how it was a great idea executed poorly. The fact is that is complete and utter BULLSHIT. The most fundamental right of all time is the right to keep your belongings. You dont have to share your toys if you dont want to. Everyone gets their own space, and they can leave and go somewhere else freely to pursue their dreams. But you CANNOT steal someone elses property to do so. And institutionalizing that is just the victory of all those fuckers who would rather have things given to them than work for it, regardless of who has to be dispossessed and killed to get it.

If you are really smart and you go make a company and it goes public and you make a million dollars, that is your million dollars. You should be FREE to do with that money that you earned as you please. You should not be FORCED to give half of it to the Govt / Poor people. That is the oppossite of Freedom. And if you choose Communism, then you have to give ALL OF IT to them. This is not good. This is the end of all human society as it has been since the beginning, since people caught their own food and shared it if they felt like it.

"Without economic rights, you would not have the right earn an income."

Okay wow you are an idiot. Roosevelts rights had nothing to do with the right to earn an income... I think eveyrone already had that. In fact the Govt. has nothign to do with that. If I get a job that is between me and my employer, and in contract law I am free to do as I please. I was already free to do so in fact. Roosevelt intends to restrict my right to earn an income by imposing property taxes to pay for his expansive social welfare programs.

As for owning property, Communist Russia did not make it all the way to Marx's utopian communism, because it failed so spectacularly and so quickly. In the final stage, money and property are elminated. People get things from the state, and only from the state. And everyone gets the same thing. Nobody owned companies in Communist Russia except for the state. If you tried to make one, you would be killed or forced out of business or the govt. would just take it over.

In communist Russia, you didnt even have the right to choose what to sell your goods for or to choose how much to pay a worked. These are REAL fundamental economic rights, that I can make whatever deal I want, if the person I deal with agrees to the deal. This is contract law, closely related to property law. Communism does away with all that; all prices and wages are fixed by the govt and you will be jailed or killed if you violate their rules.
If you would've lived in the 30's you would'nt say that. The only thing that saved America's ass was WWII. And without the State, the crisis would've been much worse.

Look, would you rather live in a country where everything is private? No state at all? That's how you sound. 100% capitalistic is not good either.
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#10
Another point along hte same lines as Rage's.

Actually, FIRST OF ALL,

pursuit of happiness is not a right, it is in the Declaration of Independence, which although moving, it not a law, nor was it ever passed into law by anyone, nor would anyone but a fool consider it to be law. Although it is moving and spirited, you are not entitled to the pursuit of happiness, and even if it were, I doubt you could read it as expansively are Roosevelt does.

Now the part that relates to Rage's

If you decide to say that you need material goods to be happy, well what if I say that I need to fuck Pamela Anderson to be happy? In fact, Pursuit of Happiness for most men in the world is the pursuit of sex with hot women. If you ask Freud, that is the goal of every man. So clearly, if I am sex deprived, that is a violation of my rights, according to your reasoning above. So therefore, rape should be legal.

I dont think rape should be legal. I also dont think that you are entitled to a job any more than you are entitled to have sex. You are entitled to do what you want as long as you dont hurt anyone, that is about hte extent of freedom to pursue happiness.
 

Woodreaux

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Great passage DG. Reminds me that our country actually had good leaders at one time.
The references to rights for farmers reminds me of how they were raped by Harris Miller, AKA the Union Buster, who paved the way for the downfall of the American farmer. That same Harris Miller nows heads the ITAA an organization that floods the tech market with indentured servents from India, hence keeping tens of thousands of American programmers out of there industry.
Third Degree Burn, your ramblings clearly indicate you don't have a clue. I imagine you have formed your opinion by listening to your conservative parents complain about liberals and unions. Furthermore, FDR was one of the last real Presidents we've had. He wasn't one of these clowns who got into politics because they were bored with being a CEO.
FDR was a true servant of people of the people. A lesser man (like either of the Bush's) would have crumbled in the face of the personal challences he faced. He handled poleo like a trooper and lead us threw the greatest thread our nation has ever faced, on top of that. By disrepecting one of our greatest leaders, you have forfeited the right to breath American air, traitor.
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#12
RageAgainst said:
If you would've lived in the 30's you would'nt say that. The only thing that saved America's ass was WWII. And without the State, the crisis would've been much worse.

Look, would you rather live in a country where everything is private? No state at all? That's how you sound. 100% capitalistic is not good either.
Yes rage, I would rather live in a country which is 99% private. That is the spirit of liberty and freedom, and since I am a libertarian, that is what I believe in. I believe in a passive, lassiez-faire government as envisioned by our founding fathers. I believe that government should protect our rights, enforce the basic laws, and protect our soveirgnty / national interest abroad. They should keep taxes at the bare minimum to do these things, because taxes are theft, fundamentally. Anything beyond the bare minimum taxes needed to maintain govt. and achieve those goals above is a theft from the people.

Now there does need to be some government to achieve those things. But I think Roosevelt went far beyond that. Roosevelt is the worst thing that ever happened to our country, because he popularized those ideas, and got them institutionalized. Now people are dependent on welfare, and it is much harder to wean the population off of those things.

Welfare should be in the private sector. Americans already give phenominal amounts of money to charity, both domestic and global. In fact they give far more than the rest of the world. Their generosity is astounding. And it seems absurd to ask more than them of that. Yet Roosevelt & followers do it anyway. They charge 30% in income taxes these days, which is completely absurd. Workers are now held hostage by charities, because if they dont give that 30%, the IRS throws them in jail. Charity should always be an optional, private sector thing. Not a forced wealth-redistribution thing with an enormous, thuggish govt enforcing it.
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#13
Woodreaux said:
Great passage DG. Reminds me that our country actually had good leaders at one time.
The references to rights for farmers reminds me of how they were raped by Harris Miller, AKA the Union Buster, who paved the way for the downfall of the American farmer. That same Harris Miller nows heads the ITAA an organization that floods the tech market with indentured servents from India, hence keeping tens of thousands of American programmers out of there industry.
Third Degree Burn, your ramblings clearly indicate you don't have a clue. I imagine you have formed your opinion by listening to your conservative parents complain about liberals and unions. Furthermore, FDR was one of the last real Presidents we've had. He wasn't one of these clowns who got into politics because they were bored with being a CEO.
FDR was a true servant of people of the people. A lesser man (like either of the Bush's) would have crumbled in the face of the personal challences he faced. He handled poleo like a trooper and lead us threw the greatest thread our nation has ever faced, on top of that. By disrepecting one of our greatest leaders, you have forfeited the right to breath American air, traitor.
FDR was hands down the worst President we ever had, you commie asshole.
And my Dad is a democrat, for the record. My mom is apolitical. Just so you didnt have any delusions about me "having my opinions formed" by listening to my parents.
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#15
Yeah, move it to B&T, since you clearly dont understand the ideas going on here and doing so would signify the destruction of any intellectual value this post ever had.

Why dont we keep this intelligent and see some actual response to my arguments? Dont you liberals have a single reasonable retort? I'm actually interested to see if there are any good counter arguments you can make. And pointing out my exagerations doesnt count; if you cant shoot down the core of my argument, it means that I am right. If you move it to B&T, because no one comes up wiht anything intelligent to say, that also means that I am right.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#16
ThirdDegreeBurn said:
Exactly Rage, exactly. People aren't entitled to TV's and all that shit, that is absurd, and that is what a substantial portion of Welfare $$$ goes to in America. You arent entitled to a job either. You are lucky to get a job if you are qualified and work hard. This Roosevelt bullshit flies in the face of any reasonable perspective on the world, and yet so many dumbass liberals eat it right up. And now its institutionalized in America.

And you know what, all these fucking deficits are because of Roosevelt and his dumbass welfare programs. Roosevelt is going to sink our country in debt and make us all poor, and then the terrorists will take over the world and kill us all.

Well maybe not that last part (hehe) but the way things are going, you cant be too sure.
You speak like taxes are bad. Taxes don't all go to welfare, they make roads, schools, hospitals, pay the cops, the firefighters, the army. They can also pay bowls of soup to those who live on the street, or serve to build cheap ghetto buildings for those who can't pay regular bills. Now if you think that's not good, you're full of shit because it costs you what, a couple cents worth of taxes, maybe a couple dollars a year, a way smaller amount than what goes into the military, for instance.

And if anyone blames Bush for the deficits, they will be partly right, because he should not have increased medicare and all that shit. But Roosevelt & followers (Lyndon FUCKING Johnson) are far more responsible, plus all those idiots in Congress with thier pork barrel bullshit.
Partly right? PARTLY RIGHT????? Do you know how much this pig wastes in the military? Fucking 400 billion a year. He took billions directly from the social security safe to go to his stupid war. Now, what's the deficit? Yeah, about 500 billion. Welfare has no weight on the deficit compared to the military.
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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#17
ThirdDegreeBurn said:
FDR was hands down the worst President we ever had, you commie asshole.
And my Dad is a democrat, for the record. My mom is apolitical. Just so you didnt have any delusions about me "having my opinions formed" by listening to my parents.
Actually, I'm going to say Nixon or perhaps the current president holds that title.

However, you're blinded by your own capitalist motives. Communism on paper is a great idea. However it neglected the human spirit. Communism provided an opportunity for all to be fulfilled in a material goods sense. In theory it was good, in practice it failed utterly.

The problem was that human nature tends to be a bit greedy. This led to a drastic inequality in the social classes that is only rivaled by our current system of capitolism.

The real difference between communism and capitolism is that while they both end up in the same place, communism wasn't supposed too.
 

Jung

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#18
ThirdDegreeBurn said:
Roosevelt is a Communist. The most important right is the right of property, to keep what you earn and work for by the sweat of your brow. All these other "rights" which are not really rights at all but a bunch of bullshit propaganda by Roosevelt, (the dirty sheepfucker), all these other "rights" are just excuses to raise taxes and erode the right of people to keep what they have earned and worked for.

If you dont have property, you dont have the American Dream, and you dont have a functional economy. You have communism. Property rights trump liberal feel good bullshit.

And you certainly can be free without those rights. People need to be free to fail. It is what they are best at. People will always fail, and you cannot legislate failure and poverty away. It just is. The smart ones will find a way to climb back up, and the dumb ones, shouldnt even be breathing my oxygen anyway.


Stop posting.
 

ThirdDegreeBurn

Sodomized by Lenin
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#19
UberSkippy said:
Actually, I'm going to say Nixon or perhaps the current president holds that title.

However, you're blinded by your own capitalist motives. Communism on paper is a great idea. However it neglected the human spirit. Communism provided an opportunity for all to be fulfilled in a material goods sense. In theory it was good, in practice it failed utterly.

The problem was that human nature tends to be a bit greedy. This led to a drastic inequality in the social classes that is only rivaled by our current system of capitolism.

The real difference between communism and capitolism is that while they both end up in the same place, communism wasn't supposed too.
Bullshit. Communism failed because it was theft and crime legistlated into the system. The whole thing stinks of corruption from the start. Whenever someone works and does not recieve the benefits of their labor, or whenever they do not work and recieve the benefits anyway, there is theft and corruption in the midst.

Capitalism is freedom. Communists are the ultimate example of people trying to legislate equality. It wont work, it never will, and it never was going to. If that isnt a bad idea, I dont know what is. Dont sit here and blame human nature, blame people for the failure of your shitty scam. Communism was a crime against an entire nation, a crime perpetrated by liberals in Russia supported by millions of brainwashed and angry peasants. And they took that nation and drove it straight into the ground.
 

RageAgainst

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#20
ThirdDegreeBurn said:
Yes rage, I would rather live in a country which is 99% private. That is the spirit of liberty and freedom, and since I am a libertarian, that is what I believe in. I believe in a passive, lassiez-faire government as envisioned by our founding fathers. I believe that government should protect our rights, enforce the basic laws, and protect our soveirgnty / national interest abroad. They should keep taxes at the bare minimum to do these things, because taxes are theft, fundamentally. Anything beyond the bare minimum taxes needed to maintain govt. and achieve those goals above is a theft from the people.
Ok so. What happens when companies bankrupt during recessions? People loose their jobs. Without the state and your taxes, these people would have to steal loafs of bread to survive.

Americans already give phenominal amounts of money to charity, both domestic and global. In fact they give far more than the rest of the world.
If you take the average amount of $ given by an american and divide it by the average income, I don't think they give more.
Someone who makes 10$ and gives 3$ is more generous than someone who makes 100$ and gives 10.

Welfare should be in the private sector. Charity should always be an optional, private sector thing. Not a forced wealth-redistribution thing with an enormous, thuggish govt enforcing it.
The first goal of the private is to make profit. The first goal of the government is (or should be) to serve the people, not making personnal profit out of the taxes or "charity".

If welfare would be private, like people decide whether or not they want to give money to welfare, then this welfare private company would take a percentage from that amount instead of giving it all to "charity".
 
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