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Headlines Senate approves electronic ID card bill

Jung

???
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#1
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5702505.html
Last-minute attempts by online activists to halt an electronic ID card failed Tuesday when the U.S. Senate unanimously voted to impose a sweeping set of identification requirements on Americans.

The so-called Real ID Act now heads to President Bush, who is expected to sign the bill into law this month. Its backers, including the Bush administration, say it's needed to stop illegal immigrants from obtaining drivers' licenses.

When the act's mandates take effect in May 2008, Americans will be required to obtain federally approved ID cards with "machine readable technology" that abides by Department of Homeland Security specifications. Anyone without such an ID card will be effectively prohibited from traveling by air or Amtrak, opening a bank account, or entering federal buildings.

After the Real ID Act's sponsors glued it to an Iraq military spending bill, final passage was all but guaranteed. Yet that didn't stop a dedicated cadre of privacy activists from trying to raise the alarm in the last few days.

UnRealID.com, which calls the legislation a "National ID card," reports that more than 10,800 people filled out its online petition to senators.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation hastily created a "Stop The Real ID Act!" campaign last week, and the ACLU denounced the bill as creating "a system ripe for identity theft." Security guru Bruce Schneier offered his own negative critique.

If the Real ID Act had been a stand-alone piece of legislation--instead of being embedded in an unrelated military spending bill--its passage in the Senate might have been less certain.

The House approved it in February by a relatively narrow vote of 261-161, and some senators had condemned it. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., warned last month that the Real ID Act creates "de facto national ID cards" and the National Immigration Law Center said it will make it harder even for legal immigrants and citizens to get driver's licenses.

Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican and Real ID Act sponsor, applauded the Senate vote on Tuesday. "The Real ID is vital to preventing foreign terrorists from hiding in plain sight while conducting their operations and planning attacks," Sensenbrenner said. "By targeting terrorist travel, the Real ID will assist in our War on Terror efforts to disrupt terrorist operations and help secure our borders."
I don't like this idea one bit, this country is starting to sound more like a police state everyday. I'm all for ID, and mandating it be carried at all times. However, I don't want electronic ID, which can possible the infringe on privacy our citizens. I'm just hoping these don't turn into RFIDs. :confused:
 

BrIONwoshMunky

EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!
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Can anyone explain to me how me giving up my own rights insures my own freedom? I've got to be missing something.

I've noticed an erosion of our privacy since 9/11. Now, I'm all for being on the good American side and saying "Whatever stops those terrorist bastards." But, when it means that the basic freedoms I've been assured now have stipulations on them, I find it kind of hard to swallow whole.

I also don't think that a new ID card is going to matter one freakin' bit. If they can counterfeit liscenses now, what would make this one any different, electronic or not?

It feels as if the government is herding the American people into a tighter and tighter corral. When instead, they should be guarding our fences, and keeping all the wolves out.
 

Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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i find it somewhat ironic that they made an online (or electric) petition to stop this bill. i dont care, i dont see how making it so that a police officer can find out more about you with a device that scans your license and also stops people from making fake licenses is a bad thing
 

gurlgonewild

Was machen Sie?
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1. it already IS mandatory that everyone carry one form of ID (either dl or passport) at all times (adults). supreme court already ruled and gave its approval here's that ruling: http://http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/03pdf/03-5554.pdf

a. if you don't have it on you when stopped, (and the enforcement agent wants to be a dick) you can be held under the anti-terrorism law which can include indefinite detention, no lawyer, no contact w/ family or friends, etc.

b. they've expanded many agency's jurisdictions to assist in enforcing the anti-terrorism law; which previously didn't have any interaction w/ the public (like prison guards--there's another title for them but i can't think of it right now).

c. they told no one. how about a public service announcement?

2. in response to jung's RFID comment; hope no longer
You said the ID card will be electronically readable. What does that mean?

The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.

In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders. The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.
3. biometrics might be apart of the new ID:
What's going to be stored on this ID card?

At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."

Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.
4. get more info about the card here:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-5697111.html?tag=st.num

i, for one though early morning brain fogginess might be clouding my thoughts am not theoretically against the ID card b/c in my op, if they had done it right the first time we'd already have a national ID card for everyone. the gov't has fallen behind the times and are using terrorism acts as an excuse to catch up. i am against RFID; assinine crap.

but as for the many other anti-terrorism measures they've enacted since 9/11; such BS. how is it the average american citizens fault the gov't failed to protect us from terrorism? why should we have to live in a police state simply to make it easier for the gov't to do their job!? and who is to say any of these combined measures will be protective? people, they can hardly keep up w/ the shit they already have on us all (which is a lot)!

these "forward" movements are murmurations; ever closer to erasing the ideals this country was built on.
 

JLXC

WTF's Official Conspiracy Fanatic
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gurlgonewild said:
these "forward" movements are murmurations; ever closer to erasing the ideals this country was built on.
I couldn't agree more. People need to wake up before it's too late. Once it becomes part of the institution it will be so much harder to get rid of. I am tired of my rights going bye bye too.
 

Binarycow

The guy with the fast KIA
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"Whats that, Orwell?" *Bark* "You say Big Brother is looking to waste money when he could be spending it on actually needed items, like looking for a cleaner source of fuel, or mending torn relations with other countrys?"
/obey
//1984
 

Favetti

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I understand that you all would be pissed but dont you carry your wallet already? What would another card matter? If it'll help keep the illegals out, then I'm all for it.
 

_Kitana_

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junglizm said:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5702505.html

I don't like this idea one bit, this country is starting to sound more like a police state everyday. I'm all for ID, and mandating it be carried at all times. However, I don't want electronic ID, which can possible the infringe on privacy our citizens. I'm just hoping these don't turn into RFIDs. :confused:
Agreed.

:(
 

gurlgonewild

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Favetti said:
I understand that you all would be pissed but dont you carry your wallet already? What would another card matter? If it'll help keep the illegals out, then I'm all for it.
fav, that's the point!!!!! don't buy into the BS man, what makes you think it will keep illegals out!? while an avg citizen cannot go on an early morning jog w/o their ID and gets harrassed for it...please tell me you are kidding, right?

it would be one thing if passports, applications for visa's, dl's, social security numbers, & birth certificates were effectively managed and used correctly as ID, but you can buy all them, forged... and the gov't wouldn't know the difference muchless businesses (like airlines). :rolleseyes:

see the trouble is it lacks follow through, i hear the commitment but i fail to see this action bringing long term resolution to our immigrant/terrorist problem.
 
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BrIONwoshMunky said:
Can anyone explain to me how me giving up my own rights insures my own freedom? I've got to be missing something.

I've noticed an erosion of our privacy since 9/11. Now, I'm all for being on the good American side and saying "Whatever stops those terrorist bastards." But, when it means that the basic freedoms I've been assured now have stipulations on them, I find it kind of hard to swallow whole.

I also don't think that a new ID card is going to matter one freakin' bit. If they can counterfeit liscenses now, what would make this one any different, electronic or not?

It feels as if the government is herding the American people into a tighter and tighter corral. When instead, they should be guarding our fences, and keeping all the wolves out.
Giving up our rights is not ensuring our freedoms, but the government has this uncanny ability of making everyone believe that's how it works. Because the American people accept it, it keeps happening. Eventually it will be like Binarycow says, Big Brother will be here to stay.
WAKE UP AMERICA!!! The terrorists have won. America has become such a pansy that it is sacrificing the beliefs that we were founded on to protect itself from an attack that I have yet to see an attempt at. Maybe if we stopped meddling in everyone else's shit and started dealing with our own issues we wouldn't have been attacked to begin with.
These new ID's won't help. If people want to get in badly enough they'll find a way.
 

ChilianFuckFace

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I have to point something out here. Many or let say most illegal immigrants are a problem to our government our society and our safety. When my grandfather came to this country he was an illegal immigrant to. However he was a very calm and good person. He never got one tickets in his entire life. He never got arrested, never got into any trouble. He worked hard to buy his house, cars, stocks and much more. He build his company from the grown up and created many jobs. Most of this employees were African Americans.

Now, in the current time. I have the opportunity to share my free time with many people from different backgrounds. I became very good friends with a few guys. Unfortunally they are illegal in this country. They do no harm. Most of them are well educated guys who came here for a better life. Now they are being made into criminals.

A person at least here in Florida can not survive without a driver license. Most of them are forced to drive without licenses. They never committed any crime nor are bad for our society. They are being forced to drive without licenses and by doing this they are becoming a criminal.

I am all about kicking immigrants out who are a cost for us and our government. I am all for closing our borders and making sure no more illegal immigrants come into our country. However we must realize that many of the people I talk about have been here for more than 15 years, and they believe this to be their home. If they aren't criminals and are doing something to better themselves why put them in the same category as criminals?

I am not saying, lets give them all papers. But at least, lets give them driver licenses. Wouldn't it be better to know where these people are if need to contact them. Wouldn't it be better to be able to find them and have them in a database instead of not knowing who is in our back yard?

This is just a thought... :(
 

_Kitana_

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Now they are being made into criminals.

If they didn't follow the proper laws to get in here they are criminals no matter how nice
 

ChilianFuckFace

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_Kitana_ said:
Now they are being made into criminals.

If they didn't follow the proper laws to get in here they are criminals no matter how nice
You are right! If they came in here illegally, then yes they are criminals from the get go. (Even though crossing an imaginary line is not really a crime. Not in the same category as murder.)

What happens to the kids that were brought here when they were young and had no choice? Are they criminals because their parents brought them here?

I am totally against illegal immigration. This is the major problem. We must first close the borders. Do not allow anymore illegal immigrants to reach American land. Second handle the situation with the individuals already in the country. Or both situations simultaneously would be better.

If we kicked every single illegal immigrant out of the country will cause major problems. Imagine all of the jobs that will be available and probably will not be able to cover. Also the economy will suffer slightly, but it will suffer in the end. Every illegal immigrant must eat, must buy clothes, must buy furniture, must buy cars, buy gas...

I say, if they are real criminal, drug dealers, drug abusers, violent person. Kick them out. We know they are here, why not keep the ones we will use and kick out the bad ones?
 

_Kitana_

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ChilianFuckFace said:
You are right! If they came in here illegally, then yes they are criminals from the get go. (Even though crossing an imaginary line is not really a crime. Not in the same category as murder.)

What happens to the kids that were brought here when they were young and had no choice? Are they criminals because their parents brought them here?

I am totally against illegal immigration. This is the major problem. We must first close the borders. Do not allow anymore illegal immigrants to reach American land. Second handle the situation with the individuals already in the country. Or both situations simultaneously would be better.

If we kicked every single illegal immigrant out of the country will cause major problems. Imagine all of the jobs that will be available and probably will not be able to cover. Also the economy will suffer slightly, but it will suffer in the end. Every illegal immigrant must eat, must buy clothes, must buy furniture, must buy cars, buy gas...

I say, if they are real criminal, drug dealers, drug abusers, violent person. Kick them out. We know they are here, why not keep the ones we will use and kick out the bad ones?

You really don’t understand they are already REAL crimminals. Kicking them out will not hurt our economy at all. Most of them are not hard working people as you described, if they bring a woman who is pregnant over here, that child is an American Citizen. That child gets government funding, like welfare, wic and other things, funding and grants to go to school, free school lunches and other things. It adds up. Sad part of it is the people who help bring them across tell them and teach them how to take full advantage of the system.

These Illegal Immigrants a lot of time get paid under the table. If they are using false identification, they really aren’t paying for social security or taxes cause it can’t be accounted for (so that money is going to waste) If they move up in a company and start making good wages with benefit’s a lot of them don’t have to pay in cause they never FILE taxes. Most do not make any effort to speak our langue forcing employers to either hire interrupters or make people learn Spanish. For the most part a lot of them are uneducated.

California is going broke trying to deal with all the Illegal Immigration problem. They have a high crime rate, high drug rate and a high Illegal Immigration problem. These people have already broke the law there is nothing stopping them from breaking it further. You mention buying a car… most of them pay right out in cash, don’t pay wheel tax, don’t have a driver licenses and don’t bother switching the title over. Also no insurance cause they are all ready breaking the law, so if they smash into your car your basically screwed…. 1/3 of all our prisoners in the united states are illegal Immigrants.

If you are an honest hard working person, than you will take proper steps to obtain a green card and come into the country correctly. You talk about good hard working illegal immigrants.. what about the good hard working people of America who can’t get jobs because their jobs are filled up by over 7 million Illegal Immigrants. That is 7 million tax paying citizen who could be with a job, earning a living and off of welfare or even people who could use a part time job to make ends meet…

In Order for us to tighten up our boards and get a grip on the situation, even the non-dangerous Illegal Immigrants have to go. A lot of them bring their children over here cause they know America is soft hearted. Well America is not responsible for Mexico children. Mexico has zero tolerance for Illegal Immigrants… They are not so soft hearted on the fact that the people may have children.

America needs to understand that Illegal Immigrants bring a horde of economic problems. Employers who get fined because they mistakenly hired an Illegal immigrant. Employers who have to adjust to having Immigrants who don’t speak English, hire interrupters.

Health insurance. All these Illegal Immigrants who don’t have health insurance, who go to a doctor and do not pay. These office have no way of properly collecting that money… so they raise the prices and then health care go ups. All the illegal immigrants who get free health care of government aid.

Second of all these Illegal immigrants who hold jobs and do not have to pay taxes, do not have to file taxes. Those who kids get government help, those who get and feed off our government and take advantage of welfare and wic. Leaving real hard working American families who actually need it struggling to get it.

Not to mention the crime. It is no secret nor no lie that most of our drug problem comes from illegal immigration, 50% of our murders and 1/3 of the people in our prisons. The good honest hard working people are the ones coming over here with proper authority and not causing more problems for the average Joe citizen.
 

bnccoder

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I'm all for the idea. We are allready have to have ID why not make it somewhat of a security measure and put it to working for our advantage.
 

_Kitana_

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bnccoder said:
I'm all for the idea. We are allready have to have ID why not make it somewhat of a security measure and put it to working for our advantage.

Because we normaly don't need ID's to open up bank account and this sounds like a master ID, thats going to make idenity theift easier and maybe bring it to a whole new level. This is note prohibiting Illigals in any way shap or forum. The only reason they got it to pass was to burry it with another bill.

This is a TRUE shame