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Headlines Should the USA get universal/socialised health care?

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#1
It seems to work just fine in other countries.
Cigarettes are about $8 a pack in england and all that tax money pretty much subsidises a lot of the 'free' healthcare that they enjoy.
we could have the same, and i do think we need it..

from the New Yorker..
The U. S. health-care system, according to “Uninsured in America,” has created a group of people who increasingly look different from others and suffer in ways that others do not. The leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States is unpaid medical bills. Half of the uninsured owe money to hospitals, and a third are being pursued by collection agencies. Children without health insurance are less likely to receive medical attention for serious injuries, for recurrent ear infections, or for asthma. Lung-cancer patients without insurance are less likely to receive surgery, chemotherapy, or radiation treatment. Heart-attack victims without health insurance are less likely to receive angioplasty. People with pneumonia who don’t have health insurance are less likely to receive X rays or consultations. The death rate in any given year for someone without health insurance is twenty-five per cent higher than for someone with insur-ance. Because the uninsured are sicker than the rest of us, they can’t get better jobs, and because they can’t get better jobs they can’t afford health insurance, and because they can’t afford health insurance they get even sicker.

One of the great mysteries of political life in the United States is why Americans are so devoted to their health-care system. Six times in the past century—during the First World War, during the Depression, during the Truman and Johnson Administrations, in the Senate in the nineteen-seventies, and during the Clinton years—efforts have been made to introduce some kind of universal health insurance, and each time the efforts have been rejected. Instead, the United States has opted for a makeshift system of increasing complexity and dysfunction. Americans spend $5,267 per capita on health care every year, almost two and half times the industrialized world’s median of $2,193; the extra spending comes to hundreds of billions of dollars a year. What does that extra spending buy us? Americans have fewer doctors per capita than most Western countries. We go to the doctor less than people in other Western countries. We get admitted to the hospital less frequently than people in other Western countries. We are less satisfied with our health care than our counterparts in other countries. American life expectancy is lower than the Western average.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050829fa_fact

we need something!!!
 
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#2
Just sign on to the Canadian system! Make it the North American Health Care program!
Yeah, that'll work. /sarcasm
The American system is in shambles. You need some kind of socialized system. THere a couple of impediments to this:

Problem one: the low tax rates in America would have a hard time supporting such a massive project as socialized health care. With government subsidies, a public insurance plan can lose money, and still remain viable, but those subsidies are unlikely to be forthcoming, given the massive deficit.

Problem two: the hospitals in the US are run for profit, whereas the Canadian ones are run for the public good. This is a huge difference, profit versus public good. They are NOT the same thing, and a hospital who won't perform certain life-saving procedures because of the threat of lawsuits is NOT a good thing.

So, what life-saving solutions am I suggesting?

Simple, a raise in taxes (a painful but neccessary step to recovery), followed by a decrease in corporate handouts (this will hugely reduce said deficit). Then, with these savings, implement a national health care insurance plan that is covered by income taxes. This is essentially the same as the Canadian system, except that the Government of Canada owns almost all the hospitals here, while I am suggesting just a government move into insurence for the USA.

Just my two cents.
 

Darklight

Oppressing your posts...
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#3
its a rediculous circle... corperate health insurance charges a mint for coverage, so most anyone can only get it if its paid for as a group plan with a job... then the hospitals and doctors charge a mint for services knowing big business is paying the bills, and well you know earn a mint themselves... so the medical equipement and drug suppliers realized that since the bills are huge and being paid by big business, we'll we can charge a mint for drugs and medical machines...

whats worse is the loophole in the hipocritic(I know how its supposed to be spelled but its hipocracy). Yes they have to help people and keep them from dying... but thats it.. They dont have to fix what is wrong. They will take a man in who had a heart attack and save his life.. bill him for the services even if he cant pay but must try to save him reguardless... but they dont have to fix the cause of the heart attack in the first place... not unless joe colesterol can pay out the nose or afford health coverage to pay for it.. and even then many health care companies will deny what they call "quality of life" care... and fixing the cause of a heart attack could be considered that..... because you know he might not ever have another one... because the human body is a gamble...
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#4
oh and before all the brits wake up and barrage us with why socialised healthcare sucks, my old man is in england, mom too.. both are in their sixties, ill as shit and suffering because the health service prioritises to more needy/younger people.. might sound callous but i can undrstand this, my dad too, his philosophy is that he's had a good run in life and as long as he doesn't suffer too much pain then whatever.. my mom is the other extreme and pays to go private..

my main point isn't that social healthcare would save the lives of our elderly but that it would stop the young from getting in stupid debt or just avoiding costly care..
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#5
Republicans won't do it. They're too focused on geopolitics, military spendings, and cutting taxes, making the deficit fucking huge. With a deficit like that, a socialized health care is impossible. And forget the tax increase, because if you increase taxes, you can't increase the poor people's taxes, you have to tax the rich more. Do you see Bush raising taxes of those who finance his election?

Oh and if you see someone poor claiming he votes republican, slap him in the face for me.
 
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#6
We should have socialized healthcare but then the commies have won, least that's how a lot of jackasses see it.
 

RageAgainst

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#7
sideshow_bob said:
We should have socialized healthcare but then the commies have won, least that's how a lot of jackasses see it.
Jackasses indeed, I still can't figure out their "equality = communism = evil" logic...

I hope all those who are against free healthcare get bankrupt and break their fucking legs
 
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#8
Try and convince those MD why they should earn less just so those who can't pay their med bills get free rides. People don't go through 8 years of schooling and loans from 10 different banks just so "the society benefits"
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#9
DementialWave said:
Try and convince those MD why they should earn less just so those who can't pay their med bills get free rides. People don't go through 8 years of schooling and loans from 10 different banks just so "the society benefits"
they don't have to earn less, my doctor back in england drove a rolls royce.. he wasn't on $8 an hour..
 

JLXC

WTF's Official Conspiracy Fanatic
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#10
America wont ever Socialize medicine because of it's overshadowing Capitalistic nature. It's all about the benjamins. We can talk about the why's and where fors and what have you, but in the end, unless America changes which is nearly impossible, it's impossible.
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#11
JLXC said:
America wont ever Socialize medicine because of it's overshadowing Capitalistic nature. It's all about the benjamins. We can talk about the why's and where fors and what have you, but in the end, unless America changes which is nearly impossible, it's impossible.
true.. but it has changed, is changing and should change more.. this isn't the america that existed in 1776 and it won't be like this in 2176..
what's wrong with making a system whereby the old woman at the end of the block (whose husband died without leaving her any life insurance and who can't work because she's depressed etc etc) gets her medical bills looked after by that system?
 

ChilianFuckFace

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#12
JLXC said:
America wont ever Socialize medicine because of it's overshadowing Capitalistic nature. It's all about the benjamins. We can talk about the why's and where fors and what have you, but in the end, unless America changes which is nearly impossible, it's impossible.
I concur!
 

JLXC

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#13
void said:
true.. but it has changed, is changing and should change more.. this isn't the america that existed in 1776 and it won't be like this in 2176..
what's wrong with making a system whereby the old woman at the end of the block (whose husband died without leaving her any life insurance and who can't work because she's depressed etc etc) gets her medical bills looked after by that system?
Well actually it's this simple. If she does then other people will be jealous of it, and they will bitch and moan. It seems when "You're" the one getting the bennies it's totally cool, when someone else is they're "Living off my Taxes!" Which seems to be the kiss of death. Maybe it's the outdated Christian Work Ethic, maybe it's simply Capitalism, but it's there.

I see what you're saying, I'm just not seeing any of this social progress anytime soon. It's not impossible for America to change, but there are plenty of people who benifit from the "Status Quo" and will spend billions in Bribes, I mean donations, to the Govt parties to keep it that way. I don't see the Rich changing... maybe ever.
 
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#14
JLXC said:
Well actually it's this simple. If she does then other people will be jealous of it, and they will bitch and moan. It seems when "You're" the one getting the bennies it's totally cool, when someone else is they're "Living off my Taxes!" Which seems to be the kiss of death. Maybe it's the outdated Christian Work Ethic, maybe it's simply Capitalism, but it's there.
Well, in the Canadian system, it isn't just the old lady at the end of the street who gets te benefits, but everybody. If you have a problem with a system that actively benefits YOU, then you are simply a fucktarded dumbass.

JLXC said:
I see what you're saying, I'm just not seeing any of this social progress anytime soon. It's not impossible for America to change, but there are plenty of people who benifit from the "Status Quo" and will spend billions in Bribes, I mean donations, to the Govt parties to keep it that way. I don't see the Rich changing... maybe ever.
America has changed hugely since the sixties, the social safety net has eroded, the gap between rich and poor has widened, and there seems to be an increasing sense of what can only be described as "looking out for number one". On the other hand, you are probably right about the rich. A quote from 1984 comes to mind:
George Orwell - 1984 said:
The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal. Thus throughout history a struggle which is the same in its main outlines recurs over and over again. For long periods the High seem to be securely in power, but sooner or later there always comes a moment when they lose either their belief in themselves or their capacity to govern efficiently, or both. They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High.
PS: Invader Zim kicks ass!
 

Mock

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#15
An entire debate in less than five words

Fuck that communist shit.
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#16
Mock said:
Fuck that communist shit.
and you're a student of what exactly?
opinions?
can someone clear up this 'accident', i might step in it..
 

Darklight

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#17
look its simple.... you pick a doctor... while you are healthy, you pay him a flat fee per month... when you get sick or need surgery.. you stop paying him untill he fixes it... entices health care to actually fix problems...
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#18
400 billion of annual military spendings could easily be cut in half to support a socialized health care. With 200 billion$ in the military, you'd still be 110 billion ahead of the second ranked country.
 
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#19
RageAgainst said:
400 billion of annual military spendings could easily be cut in half to support a socialized health care. With 200 billion$ in the military, you'd still be 110 billion ahead of the second ranked country.
The American military budget reminds me of the old British policy of maintaining a navy bigger than the second and third countries put together. This policy was scrapped when it became retardedly expensive.
The point is that eventually America will have to give up being the world's only superpower. When this happens, maybe you will start spending money on more important things.
 

void

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#20
china already has more troops and they are probably making most of the weapons already.. won't be long..