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Headlines The Definitive 'OPEC Doesn't Have Shit To Do With Current Gas Prices,' Thread

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#1
Oh-Kay ... Aliensavant posted this thread called "Fuck OPEC". Think about this people. Use your brains for a second. You think that if OPEC DOUBLES its price for a barrel of crude oil today, the price of gas in the US would double as well? You're correct! Hey, look at that, I already contradicted myself, right? Wrong, OPEC didn't raise the price of gasoline, the US oil companies did.

Oil being taken from the ground today, be it in the middle east or right here in the U.S., takes between five and seven years to hit your gas tank. The oil has to be harvested, barreled, stored, transported, stored, refined, stored, transported, and stored again; and only then does it hit your tank.

Generally, refined oil in gasoline form is held in storage for over 3 years in the U.S. This means that even if we imported pure gasoline from the Middle East with the doubled price, the price shouldn't affect the consumers for 3 years. However, the U.S. oil companies feel that they can instantly make extra cash, even though the price they paid for the gas you're putting in your tank today cost them an ENORMOUSLY less amount of money because they bought it years ago. They are not only making profit (which every business needs to do), but then WAY overcharging the buyers, counting on the lack of knowledge from U.S. citizens (which, obviously, they get) to pay whatever they want to charge for it.

/rant
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#2
So, what are we gonna do about it? Fuckall. We're gonna keep bitching at the high prices, because that's the only fucking thing we can do!!!

If I was the Government, I'd give considerable incentives to those who buy an hybrid car, and create laws that restrict production and import of gasoline fueled cars and favor production and import of hybrid cars as well. Just like VHS turned into DVDs so quickly, except I'd force that change from gasoline to hybrid.

Of course, the oil lobby is so powerful that it would take an administration with honorable balls to do it.
 

Darklight

Oppressing your posts...
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#3
heh... in new jersey a few years ago, when the gas hike started, truck owner/operators blocked off one of the primary highways from the very west side of the state to the east.. blocking the entrances on both ends with thier trucks for a few hours in protest... worked for a while cuz the priced dropped back a bit, but i guess in the long run there fucked... since gas prices are now 240% what they were in that state..
 

MetalHead

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#4
Heh, it's a good point you have, however the fact remains that everytime gas prices go up, it occurs simultaneously with an increase in oil prices. It's a moot point whether this because the gas prices are increasing in response to the oil price increase, or if they are just trying to screw us as much as OPEC. The gas companies still only raise them in accordance with OPEC never on their own. Be that as it may, it is still refreshing to see someone pointing fingers at someone other than OPEC. These ridiculous gas prices are only going to change when there is no profit in them. Supply and Demand... if there is no demand then either the price drops or the industry dies. These changes are going to require more than hybrid vehicles. Hybrids mearly place a bandage on a broken leg, all of the information you recieve about the benefits of hybrids is biased. Hybrids are only effective in cities or other areas of stop and go traffic. The electric motor is only used at speeds of 15mph or less, thus hybrids are useless for rural areas or on highways. This "oil crisis" needs an alternative not a compromise, which is what a hyrid is. In truth the only logical choice is the use of hydrogen vehicles. That is where our money and energy should be targeted, not towards diplomacy with the middle-east, appeasing oil lobbiest, or fighting Bush's war. Therefore I agree with you on most points, gas prices are affected by much more than OPEC or the middle-east.
 

gurlgonewild

Was machen Sie?
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#5
are we forgetting one crucial and most important part of what makes up gasoline prices in any country? TAXES...ever heard of them? lest we have forgotten, the largest corporations (gov'ts) take more than their share which inflates the prices of gasoline unlike anything that occurs within the actual industry.

consider this, of past events where the oil industry took major hits, gas prices would have hardly moved as steeply as they are today if it weren't for gov't intervention and taxation. it is unprofitable to move prices so high to force consumers (in the long run) by the millions to seek out alternative means of transportation and adopt a decreasing dependency in general.

they, the gov't as well as the oil industry, increasingly have come to realize with great dismay the errors of their ways...the trouble is, they have dug their own hole and the only way to get out is to continue increasing prices as they have been.

i'm of course not stating OPEC has had no role in the drastic increase in gas prices since the 70's, but it's pointless to argue how wrong they are about getting the most money for their resources when the USA let's say, does the same when it comes to medicinal drugs, education, technology, etc.
 

MetalHead

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#6
gurlgonewild said:
are we forgetting one crucial and most important part of what makes up gasoline prices in any country? TAXES...ever heard of them? lest we have forgotten, the largest corporations (gov'ts) take more than their share which inflates the prices of gasoline unlike anything that occurs within the actual industry.
This is actually one of the few situations in which the effects of taxes are exagerated. Currently, at least in Tennessee though I'm sure most other states are in a similar situation, we only pay 38.7 cents per gallon of gas. This sounds like a lot and in truth it is, however it makes up less than a fourth of the gas price. No doubt taxes have helped push the prices higher, but their effects pale in comparison to those of OPEC and the various fuel conglomerates.
 

gurlgonewild

Was machen Sie?
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#7
MetalHead said:
we only pay 38.7 cents per gallon of gas.
:jaw drops: what?!! you only pay 38 cents a gallon? in what taxes or overall??? is this the state's cut?

here in NY we are paying $2.50 per gallon, of which state, county, and city taxes start at 43 cents/per gallon. varying depending on where you live, it could be as high as 51 cents/per gallon. this doesn't include federal and other state taxes such as import tariffs or fees; fees like excise tax on carriers, ethanol taxes, environmental, inspection, etc. potentially doubling the tax levied.

http://api-ec.api.org/filelibrary/state%20motor%20fuel%20tax%20rates%20july%201%202005.pdf

in total you are paying more than 1/4-1/3 of the price at the pump in taxes to your gov't depending on market conditions. (that's $1!! of $2.50 in NY) in most other industrialized countries the rates of taxation are 100-200% of the price per gallon found at the pump which is why they regularly pay at least $4-$6/ per gallon.

a couple of links with older, outdated information cited in 2000 NY was charging as little as 23 cents per gallon. here are those links:

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/mf/rate.ssi
http://www.retirementliving.com/RLstate3.html
http://www.incorporationblog.com/archives/000037.html

bottom line, taxes are very high. if you were to split the remaining 75% per gallon between the wholesaler and supplier they'd earn 75 cents each.
 

MetalHead

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#8
MetalHead said:
we only pay 38.7 cents per gallon of gas.
I should have been more clear, we pay 38.7 cents per gallon of gas in overall taxes, federal and state combined. I am not denying the fact that taxes have helped push the price of gasoline even higher. However, taxes have less than doubled here, and barely doubled there. How can a doubling compare a 240% increase. I say it cannot.
 

Descent

Hella Constipated
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#9
teh anarchist said:
Oh-Kay ... Aliensavant posted this thread called "Fuck OPEC". Think about this people. Use your brains for a second. You think that if OPEC DOUBLES its price for a barrel of crude oil today, the price of gas in the US would double as well? You're correct! Hey, look at that, I already contradicted myself, right? Wrong, OPEC didn't raise the price of gasoline, the US oil companies did.

Oil being taken from the ground today, be it in the middle east or right here in the U.S., takes between five and seven years to hit your gas tank. The oil has to be harvested, barreled, stored, transported, stored, refined, stored, transported, and stored again; and only then does it hit your tank.

Generally, refined oil in gasoline form is held in storage for over 3 years in the U.S. This means that even if we imported pure gasoline from the Middle East with the doubled price, the price shouldn't affect the consumers for 3 years. However, the U.S. oil companies feel that they can instantly make extra cash, even though the price they paid for the gas you're putting in your tank today cost them an ENORMOUSLY less amount of money because they bought it years ago. They are not only making profit (which every business needs to do), but then WAY overcharging the buyers, counting on the lack of knowledge from U.S. citizens (which, obviously, they get) to pay whatever they want to charge for it.

/rant
That goes for everything else as well. Vendors of any sort charge insane prices if they can get away with it. Imported foods, goods, electronics, and software are the most common victim. If they're the only guys who have it, you'll pay out the ass.
 
#10
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but another reason oil futures have sky rocketed is China's demand for oil. They have been growing exponentially.
 

Icarus

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#12
If everyone drove hybrids, then (relatively) very little gas would be used, resulting in one of two things.

Either

A), gas prices drop very low as an "incentive" to try to lure people back to their V8's, knowing that it'll be very cheap to run

or...

B), gas prices spike very high so that oil companies can make profit off of the few gas-burners remaining.

Just thought I'd share that.
 

Demosthenes

Looking for truth
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#13
Aliensavant was misguided, but not completely incorrect about blaming OPEC. Remember, the market is based on speculation. When US oil company stockholders see OPEC shooting prices up, of course they are going to panic and shoot up gasoline to make up for any future losses. OPEC does have some responsibility in that respect.