Headlines The Power of Pride?

_Kitana_ · Feb 14, 2005

I believe you mistake pride with arrogance, both are closely entwined yet are separate.

_Kitana_ · Feb 14, 2005

Icarus said:
I might be making a mistake, but an entire society of philosophers and people? The Greeks, The Romans, and the other Mediterranean cultures all condemned pride, not arrogance. Could they all have been wrong? Is it a coincidence that they were considered so great, and they valued pride so little, while we have so many problems and count pride as one of our great properties?

I don't believe the greeks or romans said not to have pride. I think those stories give a message to becareful not to take more credit then you deserve and not to be Vain.

Pride is a whole different lvl

Woodreaux · Feb 14, 2005

I don't think pride is killing our society. I'll uses these 2 definitions of pride, to avoid any confussion:
1. a feeling of self-respect and personal worth
2. satisfaction with your (or another's) achievements;
(source: http://www.wordreference.com/definition/pride).

In terms of pride in one's self, I think it is usually helpfull. Pride helps people stand up for themselves. (In our corporate dominated society is a virtue too few people have.) A person who abides by descent ethics and has pride is a person with honor.
Of course, pride is often mistaken for vanity and stubborness. Some of end effects of are the same, but the causality is different. But pride should not be used as a scapegoat for bad things with similar characteristics.
But, some people's vocabularies are too small to allow different definitions for pride and vanity. In some cases, pride is legitimately hated for what it is and even made a crime against a religion:
(from http://changingminds.org/explanations/values/deadly_sins.htm)

Pride is an excessive belief in one's own abilities.

But, Vegeta is a big fan of pride! So if religious fanatics consider it a Deadly Sin and the Prince of Saiyans, says is the highest virtue. Then I definitelt see it as a virtue!

dustinzgirl · Feb 14, 2005

my sleep meds are kicking in so bear with me a sec:

I do not think that it is an abundance of pride that is leading to the detriment of society, but a lack of pride in family, self and faith. We place our pride in things that are easily gone, cars, houses, money.

bigck3000 · Feb 14, 2005

Dragon Ball Z r0x0rz!!!1!!.....Why do I know thats what he's talking about....oh god

MaxPower · Feb 14, 2005

Could it be a translation issue? Arrogance can be thought of as an over zealous pride. It would be interesting to see if they had two separate words to describe pride and arrogance.

Havok · Feb 14, 2005

Is it just me, or is Kitana full of it?

I Hate The FCC · Feb 14, 2005

HavokChylde said:
Is it just me, or is Kitana full of it?

Kitana's full of it.

ChilianFuckFace · Feb 14, 2005

HavokChylde said:
Is it just me, or is Kitana full of it?

Finally, someone with some common sense!

voiceofreason · Feb 14, 2005

Icarus said:
The other day I saw a bumper sticker on a car that said "The Power of Pride". I'm sure you've all seen one exactly like it, or maybe even have one. But, like I imagine most of you, I had never really stopped to think about it. But for some reason, it struck me. I pondered it for a while as I walked.

Is it any coincidence that we consider pride a great thing, yet we have a society riddled with problems and faulty societal standards?

Is it any coincidence that, inversely, the ancient cultures, which are highly renowned by our own, devalued pride, even condemned it? Was it not pride that was Odysseus' downfall, as he exclaimed "It was I who blinded you!" to the cyclops while sailing away? Was it not Poseidon, a relative of the cyclops, who punished Odysseus for his pride by sending a storm that took him 10 years off course? We look up to ancient socities, but we seem to disregard all they try to teach us. And why?

In our world, it's not "has society gone wrong?" anymore, it's "why has society gone wrong?" I think pride has something to do with it. I'm not saying we should run around being scared and doubting ourselves, but practicing humility is a lesson that many need to learn.

What do you think has gone wrong with society? Why can't we acheive the greatness that the ancients had? Why are we so violent and why do we never learn?

I think pride has a lot to do with it.

When I see one of those ubiquitous bumper stickers I think it has no meaning. Power of Pride, in what? It is so broad it means nothing.

Put a flag behind it, and what does it say, Nationalism?

I think Pride should only be used in reference to ones OWN accomplishments, not on the performance of football team in your town, or anything else that you have no direct contribution in...

Jung · Feb 14, 2005

HavokChylde said:
Is it just me, or is Kitana full of it?

First thing that came to mind.

gurlgonewild · Feb 14, 2005

distraction

Icarus said:
What do you think has gone wrong with society? Why can't we acheive the greatness that the ancients had? Why are we so violent and why do we never learn?

I think pride has a lot to do with it.

what i think is wrong w/ society, where to begin? in my op anything in excess is negative, therefore pride in itself isn't a detriment to society. we, individually or wholly, do not exaserbate pride to the point of downfall as can be seen by the comprimising choices we make on a daily basis and when observed in 20/20 hindsight there is no way we cherish it. on the contrary, i believe humans could take more pride therefore leaving much more room to grow as a people.

achieving greatness- i believe it is the way you choose to look at things that makes the difference. for instance, 1. people have always been violent (yet we were more so in ancient time than now) 2. people have always been adverse to change (it took the ancients hundreds of thousands of years to change their lifestyles or standard of living where as in modern times we've enjoyed doubling, tripling, etc our standard of living in a relative short period of time. *if you recall ancient history, back then life was violent warring for the privelage of living in gross discomfort for most.

pinpointing lacking values, ethics, and standards as missing or retarded elements found in society is too narrow. more broadly, it could be said enlightenment is profoundly unappreciated and is the philosophical characteristic missing from the equation.

The Enlightener · Feb 14, 2005

Pride in my opinion is more or less an image that people put on to make themselfs look good. Pride can be a good thing when it is used and applied in the right places. This is the problem with our society, everyone has to much of a high sense of pride in which pulls the sheet over their eyes and they don't realize what is really happening in our socity. Everyone in our country has way to much pride because now society says that you don't punish children you give them positive reinforcement. This positive reinforcement gives kids a sense of pride in everything they do weather its right or wrong. This gives them a sense of invinsibility in which the pride is take to the extreme and this is when it becomes arrogance. But with the way that kids now days embrace and use pride to their advantage it is starting to become the downfall of our "Great" society. This is just one of the many factors though that are going to help lead us into the next Revolution.

gurlgonewild · Feb 14, 2005

The Enlightener said:
Everyone in our country has way to much pride because now society says that you don't punish children you give them positive reinforcement. This positive reinforcement gives kids a sense of pride in everything they do weather its right or wrong. This gives them a sense of invinsibility in which the pride is take to the extreme and this is when it becomes arrogance. But with the way that kids now days embrace and use pride to their advantage it is starting to become the downfall of our "Great" society. This is just one of the many factors though that are going to help lead us into the next Revolution.

to understand why parents no longer are encouraged to "punish" their children as they used to, you ought to be aware that parental punishment was overly stern. the standard punishment would include beating, abusing, tormenting, neglecting, screaming or yelling, etc. the reason it shifted from one extreme to the other is b/c back in the 70's or 80's when parents did horrid things to their offspring no one could or would do anything about it AND it got out of hand. parents had no motivation nor did they see the consequences, and many resorted to treating their children improperly b/c it resulted in immediate gratification and was easy to administer. parents are ultimately to blame, just as the parents of the parents are to blame for being too stern, each is abusive behavior. in your example you're speaking of a false sense of pride. that children feel owed respect. no they don't, parents raise them that way, its not the kids fault.

besides, society easily corrects a false sense of pride in oneself, hell it's really good at knocking down a real sense of pride! LOL to say it will be the downfall of society as in your example is a stretch.

This positive reinforcement gives kids a sense of pride in everything they do weather its right or wrong.

positive reinforcement doesn't advocate praising a child when they do something wrong, rather if interpretted correctly its saying to use praise as a way to reinforce good behavior. for instance, if a child attempted to clean up their mess but left much to want for...you would praise the child for trying their best (only if they tried their best!) and then showing them how you would like them to properly clean. instead of raising your hand, your voice, etc to them for not doing it right.

_Kitana_ · Feb 14, 2005

HavokChylde said:
Is it just me, or is Kitana full of it?

Really....

In every Greek/Roman story it was frowned upon to be vain and arrogant. In this particular story they were punished because of their vanity and not giving credit to the gods who helped them after the war was over. Why you could say that it was cause they had pride that caused them to be punished you would be missing the whole point of the story. The Greeks and Romans were a very proud and mighty empire. When worshiping the gods the people would take great pride in what they did and how they said their name. It was only through being overly proud or arrogant along with their vanity that get them into trouble. So having pride is not bad, having to much or being arrogant is.

Further note, was it not the fact that his wife and son had pride, faith and hope in their father that caused him to return and reclaim his throne.

Take a look what happens when you stop taking pride in yourself, your work, your home, your life.

You need Pride, but you have to becareful in the amount of pride you have and the stories he is talking about that is what they were warning.

To not be arrgant, vain and selfish.

voiceofreason · Feb 14, 2005

_Kitana_ said:
Really....

In every Greek/Roman story it was frowned upon to be vain and arrogant. In this particular story they were punished because of their vanity and not giving credit to the gods who helped them after the war was over. Why you could say that it was cause they had pride that caused them to be punished you would be missing the whole point of the story. The Greeks and Romans were a very proud and mighty empire. When worshiping the gods the people would take great pride in what they did and how they said their name. It was only through being overly proud or arrogant along with their vanity that get them into trouble. So having pride is not bad, having to much or being arrogant is.

Further note, was it not the fact that his wife and son had pride, faith and hope in their father that caused him to return and reclaim his throne.

Take a look what happens when you stop taking pride in yourself, your work, your home, your life.

You need Pride, but you have to becareful in the amount of pride you have and the stories he is talking about that is what they were warning.

To not be arrgant, vain and selfish.

2 Spelling Errors
Numerous grammatical errors
and a reference to "his wife" (who's wife?), which makes me thing this thing was lifted..

Where's the Pride in that?

_Kitana_ · Feb 14, 2005

voiceofreason said:
2 Spelling Errors

Numerous grammatical errors

and a reference to "his wife" (who's wife?), which makes me thing this thing was lifted..

Where's the Pride in that?

Odysseus' wife and son. The original post was talking about Odysseus who basically pissed of the sea god and was lost for how many god damn years. His wife had like how many suitors coming to marry her but she and her son would not give up hope that he was still alive. To help Zeus sent down some griffins murder off a bunch,but more kept coming… If you, who was to busy correcting my spelling and grammar, knew anything about mythology you would know who the fuck I was talking about

His wife had to much pride to just marry any suiter, so to keep them at bay and to give them a test towards the end she said the suiter would could shoot the arrow through the hoops of these axes swords or something (at least in the movie it was like that can't remember if the orginal book had this in there or not,) could marry her...

She knew only her husband could do it.

voiceofreason · Feb 14, 2005

"who basically pissed of the sea god" ?

"some griffins murder off a bunch" ?

More spelling errors.

You're not even trying!

We're going to need to see improvement...

F-

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