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This Opioid Crisis

Rick Sanchez

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For some of you this may hit closer to home than others, but up until last year this epidemic of overdose deaths never hit close to home for me. Coincidentally several years ago when I saw the numbers running up at insane rates (400% for some states) I decided to focus most of my history studies on previous epidemics and keep up with the what was going on. I had just started my second semester dedicated to the study of the history of narcotics when boom 3 AM starting my paper on the Harrison Act, legislation that made various drugs such as heroin and cocaine illegal, my girlfriends brother overdoses and dies. Now some of you might be thinking, big deal, wasn't your brother. But the reality is i've struggled with her in dealing with this. Her brother wasn't a doctor or someone entirely successful, but he was a hard working guy with 3 kids, I saw them every holiday and spent time with him and gave him a break when his kids ran him around the yard. I knew him for a long time and had gotten on really good terms with him when his life ended. I know some of you might be dealing with something like this. For both my girlfriend and I this was a shock, we didn't even know he'd been using. And the guy who was supposed to be my brother-in-law is gone.
 

Crazizniac

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I Tried to stop my Lortabs too quickly Sunday - spent the day feeling progressively worse until I started throwing up Monday morning. The cure is to go back to full dose and slowly pull back off of them. I have never had trouble with Lortab before and have had to use it numerous times for broken bones.

R.S. this is in no way a comfort but a warning. I believe the drug has changed in the last five years. The withdrawal that I am going through is horrible and as I already pointed out unprecedented for me. I believe it is now formulated specifically to cause the addiction also it is cheaper than any other drug when prescribed. but extremely expensive to purchase illegally. If there isn't a connection between the manufacturers of the drug and the black market network that distributes it outside the purview of the doctors I would be extremely surprised.

Beware of these newer, more deadly formulations. I will never use them again I don't care what my next injury is I will do anything other than opioid pain meds.

Sorry about your girlfriends brother. Hug her every time she gets irrational because it's probably just grief manifesting itself, and you will probably be "the badguy"
Good luck.
 
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Rick Sanchez

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I Tried to stop my Lortabs too quickly Sunday - spent the day feeling progressively worse until I started throwing up Monday morning. The cure is to go back to full dose and slowly pull back off of them. I have never had trouble with Lortab before and have had to use it numerous times for broken bones.

R.S. this is in no way a comfort but a warning. I believe the drug has changed in the last five years. The withdrawal that I am going through is horrible and as I already pointed out unprecedented for me. I believe it is now formulated specifically to cause the addiction also it is cheaper than any other drug when prescribed. but extremely expensive to purchase illegally. If there isn't a connection between the manufacturers of the drug and the black market network that distributes it outside the purview of the doctors I would be extremely surprised.

Beware of these newer, more deadly formulations. I will never use them again I don't care what my next injury is I will do anything other than opioid pain meds.

Sorry about your girlfriends brother. Hug her every time she gets irrational because it's probably just grief manifesting itself, and you will probably be "the badguy"
Good luck.
This is something that we're not told as consumers, we're getting these powerful drugs given to us after minor things and we get hooked or develop a problem. Thats what happened in my case, he broke his arm, was given way too many pills and then turned to the streets once he couldn't get them anymore. Its out of control, there are too many incentives to keep this business going and its beyond sickening.
 
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Jung

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I believe the drug has changed in the last five years. The withdrawal that I am going through is horrible and as I already pointed out unprecedented for me. I believe it is now formulated specifically to cause the addiction also it is cheaper than any other drug when prescribed. but extremely expensive to purchase illegally. If there isn't a connection between the manufacturers of the drug and the black market network that distributes it outside the purview of the doctors I would be extremely surprised.

Beware of these newer, more deadly formulations. I will never use them again I don't care what my next injury is I will do anything other than opioid pain meds.
Lol, the drugs haven't changed, the chemistry in your brain has. Lortab is just a brand name for hydrocodone & aspirin, same as it's always been.

The more you use any drug, but particularly opiods, the more your receptors and brain chemistry beging to adapt. Opiods can cause gene transcriptiom, basically flipping a genetic switch that codes for withdrawal/addiction, by at least two know pathways. Age only makes it worse.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681124/
 

Jung

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Kool-aid? I don't know, maybe, I doubt it.
Right, it's not an objective fact of biochemistry. It's a conspiracy. Tell us, if the drug molecules have been altered, why are the metabolites which are used in drug screening the same they've been for 40+ years?

Sometimes you just need to look at the facts instead of trying so hard to be "woke."
 
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ib4

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Lol, the drugs haven't changed, the chemistry in your brain has. Lortab is just a brand name for hydrocodone & aspirin, same as it's always been.

The more you use any drug, but particularly opiods, the more your receptors and brain chemistry beging to adapt. Opiods can cause gene transcriptiom, basically flipping a genetic switch that codes for withdrawal/addiction, by at least two know pathways. Age only makes it worse.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3681124/
Kool-aid? I don't know, maybe, I doubt it.
Right, it's not an objective fact of biochemistry. It's a conspiracy. Tell us, if the drug molecules have been altered, why are the metabolites which are used in drug screening the same they've been for 40+ years?

Sometimes you just need to look at the facts instead of trying so hard to be "woke."
I'm with @Jung hurrrr.

I will say though, there is much speculation you can find out there in articles, to where they've actually put out products with less of impact spurring more of the crisis. Lesser/weaker dosing, the more you get or keep getting.

But in terms of making it worse, maybe. If you look at it like, "once upon a time, you were only getting codeine-morphine-opium. Whereas now you have strong synthetics such as hydrocodone and oxycodone." But I still agree that the drug isn't really that different, at the end of the day there is cross tolerance. One dose of "this kind" equates to "another kind" but it all comes to what your receptors getting use to regarding the drug amount. Also, all the others are converted to morphine in your liver...
 

Jung

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It's a simple fact of biology that if you're experiencing Withdrawal Syndrome, it's due to your brain having undergone chemical changes. There is literally no other reason a person experiences these symptoms.

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/20/11042.full
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2607320/

"The longevity of some of the behavioral abnormalities that characterize drug addiction has suggested that regulation of neural gene expression may be involved in the process by which drugs of abuse cause a state of addiction. Increasing evidence suggests that the transcription factor ΔFosB represents one mechanism by which drugs of abuse produce relatively stable changes in the brain that contribute to the addiction phenotype. ΔFosB, a member of the Fos family of transcription factors, accumulates within a subset of neurons of the nucleus accumbens and dorsal striatum (brain regions important for addiction) after repeated administration of many kinds of drugs of abuse. Similar accumulation of ΔFosB occurs after compulsive running, which suggests that ΔFosB may accumulate in response to many types of compulsive behaviors. Importantly, ΔFosB persists in neurons for relatively long periods of time because of its extraordinary stability. Therefore, ΔFosB represents a molecular mechanism that could initiate and then sustain changes in gene expression that persist long after drug exposure ceases. Studies in inducible transgenic mice that overexpress either ΔFosB or a dominant negative inhibitor of the protein provide direct evidence that ΔFosB causes increased sensitivity to the behavioral effects of drugs of abuse and, possibly, increased drug seeking behavior. This work supports the view that ΔFosB functions as a type of sustained “molecular switch” that gradually converts acute drug responses into relatively stable adaptations that contribute to the long-term neural and behavioral plasticity that underlies addiction.
"


Basically, you don't need to abuse opiods for length for these changes to occur. Recurring short-term use can cause a build up effect over time.
 

Crazizniac

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Jung, I can bake a cake from the same recipe 20 times and get different quality every time. I give you the benefit of science on this issue but maintain that by carefully controlling variables other than ingredients it is possible to affect the activity of the final product - particularly with opioid meds. Further; I was and still am sick enough that I have not had alcohol or weed since this "event" started so I am giving the massive withdrawal symptom of alcohol and weed more weight than the lortab. You, may be right. How often do you hear that?
 
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Phantom

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I Tried to stop my Lortabs too quickly Sunday - spent the day feeling progressively worse until I started throwing up Monday morning. The cure is to go back to full dose and slowly pull back off of them. I have never had trouble with Lortab before and have had to use it numerous times for broken bones.

R.S. this is in no way a comfort but a warning. I believe the drug has changed in the last five years. The withdrawal that I am going through is horrible and as I already pointed out unprecedented for me. I believe it is now formulated specifically to cause the addiction also it is cheaper than any other drug when prescribed. but extremely expensive to purchase illegally. If there isn't a connection between the manufacturers of the drug and the black market network that distributes it outside the purview of the doctors I would be extremely surprised.

Beware of these newer, more deadly formulations. I will never use them again I don't care what my next injury is I will do anything other than opioid pain meds.

Sorry about your girlfriends brother. Hug her every time she gets irrational because it's probably just grief manifesting itself, and you will probably be "the badguy"
Good luck.
The only changes they have made to Lortabs, etc are changes to make it more difficult to abuse.

Jung, I can bake a cake from the same recipe 20 times and get different quality every time. I give you the benefit of science on this issue but maintain that by carefully controlling variables other than ingredients it is possible to affect the activity of the final product - particularly with opioid meds. Further; I was and still am sick enough that I have not had alcohol or weed since this "event" started so I am giving the massive withdrawal symptom of alcohol and weed more weight than the lortab. You, may be right. How often do you hear that?
Yeah, you can and how much are you paying your quality control department to test your cake for it's chemical contents?
 

Crazizniac

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Phantom, I conceded a couple of points to Jung, and referenced the science that goes into the manufacture of drugs. Maybe you didn't get that. However consider the other side of what you just said and ask yourself how much the big pharmaceuticals can pay their employees to make sure the drugs they build can be as addictive as possible. You might just get your shit handed back to you as badly as I have for two fucking weeks for taking a med that I have never had a problem with.

Oh, also, go fuck yourself.
 
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Jung

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Jung, I can bake a cake from the same recipe 20 times and get different quality every time.
Drugs don't work like cakes... ?

So... this is high school level chemistry. The hydrocodone in lortabs is like 99.98% pure. The remaining .02% of weight being from the hcl salt they attach to make it water soluable. We're not talking about shit cooked in someone's kitchen lmao.

There are drugs where impurities from side reactions during synthesis matter, but this isn't one of them.
I give you the benefit of science on this issue but maintain that by carefully controlling variables other than ingredients it is possible to affect the activity of the final product - particularly with opioid meds.
What are you even talking about?
 
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53V3N

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For some of you this may hit closer to home than others...
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo;oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop

Sorry, that was my cat ^

I don't even know. I think we have to do this on a personal level. The govt. thinks this is something we can solve on a national level but it isn't. This is a human thing. We have to solve this on a personal level.

You've either gone through this or you've been close to someone that has.

This isn't something that is solved by some sort of initiative or bullshit, "Just Say No" nonsense.

Drugs are an actual fucking thing.

But like.. drugs.

i hear what you're saying but I mean... the point of drugs is that... DRUGS!

If we could deal with this bullshit, we would. But we can't.... so... drugs.

Science doesn't change anything.
 
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MisterFister

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Ronnie Gallagher. He was a master at tuning all the bikes back in the day when I raced motox. Even the bigger guys with all their million dollar set-ups would have Ronnie and his tattered flannel shirts 'take a quick look' pre-race. He's the guy who taught me the "listen to the screwdriver trick". They don't make 'em like that dude anymore. Anywho, I came short on a double and drove my shoulder back around to my spine with a compound clavicle to boot. I was 17ish at the time and was certain the pain was going to kill me. They pumped me full of opiods and I saw God. Alcohol and weed didn't hold a candle to this marvelous drip. The healing commenced and I saw Ronnie a couple weeks later at an Illinois event. I'm all slung up and popping the pills. That's when Ronnie said "Be careful with that shit". I was like...what's the big deal? Its doctors and shit. They know what's up. But it was Ronnie and only the dumb didn't listen to Ronnie. "Those things will give you everything you want and take from you everything you have". Jesus...Ronnie...they are just pain pills.

Hmmm. Ut oh. Its Ronnie. The fuck knows what's up but I'm a dumbass teenager. Scoring that shit back in the day was EASIER than running to the Quickie-Mart for a Dr. Pepper.

Fast forward some years and at the tail of a dry spell I had the fortune of getting a kidney stone. As I was puking and writhing in agony they shot my ass up with something called Dilaudid and it was as if I was back to day one. Euphoria doesn't describe it adequately. That's the moment I finally understood what Ronnie was talking about. NOTHING that makes you feel that good...IS good. I could hear Ronnie say "RUN".

Endure everything you can. If or when I get another kidney stone I'll take the Dilaudid. Then I'll do as Ronnie said. I'll run. A quick dip into the euphoria pool. Just enough to get your feet wet then run before you drown. NOTHING (at least for me) touches the absolute magic found in those tasty little compounds.
 
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Jung

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But like.. drugs.

i hear what you're saying but I mean... the point of drugs is that... DRUGS!

If we could deal with this bullshit, we would. But we can't.... so... drugs.

Science doesn't change anything.
That's kind of the whole problem though, isn't it? People want to take drugs for the fun/relieving experience, but without thought of potential harm. And then find anything to place blame on but themselves.

The opiod epidemic is perfectly treatable, we just don't want to approach it rationally.
 
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Rick Sanchez

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That's kind of the whole problem though, isn't it? People want to take drugs for the fun/relieving experience, but without thought of potential harm. And then find anything to place blame on but themselves.

The opiod epidemic is perfectly treatable, we just don't want to approach it rationally.
We also don't want to acknowledge that the addicts are humans, we demonize addicts to be these festering leeches that terrorize our communities. Addicts are regular people from every background imaginable.
 

53V3N

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That's kind of the whole problem though, isn't it? People want to take drugs for the fun/relieving experience, but without thought of potential harm. And then find anything to place blame on but themselves.
IDK (I literally don't know), I only have my personal experiences to draw upon but it seems like there are a fair amount that get caught up in it unawares of the situation. They may have been seeking an escape from a shit situation that was otherwise out of their control or they may have been lured in by a "friend" with the understanding that, "it's not as bad as people make it out to be". I think there's a lot of avenues to this shit that isn't just people looking for a good time.

The opiod epidemic is perfectly treatable, we just don't want to approach it rationally.
Treatable, yes but then...

We also don't want to acknowledge that the addicts are humans, we demonize addicts to be these festering leeches that terrorize our communities. Addicts are regular people from every background imaginable.
.. we demonise those that have fallen victim to it and we don't offer to help them when they do.

It's a fucked up situation for sure. On a national level it's been, "Just Say No (or you will be imprisoned*)" and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Unfortunately.

Edit: *This is about to get a WHOLE LOT worse under this administration as prisons are privatised.
 
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Crazizniac

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Shit's nasty. I am still feeling like shit and I've been off it for a week. Using Tylenol to keep my arm from screaming at me to much.
 

Jung

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We also don't want to acknowledge that the addicts are humans, we demonize addicts to be these festering leeches that terrorize our communities. Addicts are regular people from every background imaginable.
Addicts can be both, and it really doesn't matter because addiction itself should be seen as a medical, rather than moral or criminal, issue. I'm definitely not one to chastise others for drug use, but thread like this make me kinda sad...

IDK (I literally don't know), I only have my personal experiences to draw upon but it seems like there are a fair amount that get caught up in it unawares of the situation. They may have been seeking an escape from a shit situation that was otherwise out of their control or they may have been lured in by a "friend" with the understanding that, "it's not as bad as people make it out to be". I think there's a lot of avenues to this shit that isn't just people looking for a good time.
There still has to be some moment where the user knows what's going on, even if their brain wills them to ignore it.

Stick to weed and psychedelics, people. They're infinitely safer.
 
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