WTF ... IS WTF!?
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Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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#1
i have asked if we have free will, and the question has gone unanswered, but in my opinion we do not. my question is time.

the universe can not feasibly carry on forever, einstein believed this as well. so how can time continue on forever and how can time have (looking back at history) started at the year negative infinity.

this is impossible, at some point time had to of started. it only makes sense, atleast to the mind of a human that at some point, (ironically) in time, time began. but how can this be? time beginning. what is such an event marked by?

scientists say that a very long time ago there was a large bang which made things as they are today (sort of, the big bang theory is what im referring to). is this when "time" began? if so how did all those particles get there, why did they go "bang", and what happened before they went bang?

this question is unanswerable, but it only seams logical that time must have started at one point and not have existed since forever ago. on the same note it also seams logical that time couldn't have started at some point. the only answer i can even suggest is that time is some sort of loop.

when time "runs out" it starts over. or when it reaches the end everything is somehow in the state it was originally in. if this isn't true time must end eventually. infinity is simply a concept in mathematics and not a reality, but is it possible that infinity is real and with time?


i have posed many questions and to each of these questions is hundreds of more questions, and to those etc. the one answer that immediately pops to mind is 'god'. he is the creator of everything he started time, all of it was him. i am a christian and i agree with this. however, this still make me wonder: where did god come from?(who is his god?, does he have one?) and when did time begin for god.

debate please:
 
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#2
Time is a human concept; it doesn't technically exist, nor can you prove it exists. (i've said that before, but whatever) So, in reality time never really started.

as for god....well i can't say. if he does exist i bet he has a big one :thumbsup:
 
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#4
WizardlyFriend said:
where did you say this, and can you elaborate on "time not existing"
http://www.wtf.com/showpost.php?p=148225&postcount=13

ok well think about it, when the big bang occured did the numbers just suddenly start ticking? no! noone thing just said, "ok here's some numbers, start counting!" the closest thing to time may be night and day. thats about it. seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, are all just words that mankind made up one day to describe this anomoly. it takes some deep thinking :thumbsup:
 
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Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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#5
i understand. according ot the dictionary time is:
A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.

time, in terms of units is a human concept, but is time in terms of the the concept a human concept only? there is a concept which governs that today is after yesterday and etc.
 

UberSkippy

a.k.a. FuckTheBullShit
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#6
Ok, first off, put the pipe down and walk away slowly.

Time is merely a measure of change. It is neither fixed nor constant (theory of relativity rears it's head again here at WTF).

Dig a bit deaper and the question you're really asking is what was here before anything existed? A different reality? Nothing? What?

The problem you face is that the human mind isn't wired right to grasp the idea of something that has no boundaries. Time, infinity etc. They have no real boundaries, no defined beginning or end. To make matters worse they are intangible so you can't even mess around with them. Time and infinity are human concepts. But so is the negative number. Show me -1 of something tangible.

There are hundreds of theories regarding time. That it's a wheel. That it's like an hour glass and once it runs out it resets itself and the whole mess starts over again.

In the end, you will run out LONG before time does.
 

chspaulwall

CHSTOYSOLDIER06
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#7
i completely agree with Uber's point... humans were not made to grasp these concepts.. for one if ur a christian (though u said u werent quite one in one of ur other topics u started :confused: ) then the concept is that we're not supposed to understand... hence the omniscience of God... "all knowing"... considering typical humans only use 10% or so of their brain, maybe He planned it all that way so we'd pre-occupy ourselves with pointless never-ending debates like this instead of discussing how to help our starving, dying, suffering brothers and sisters around the world, how to end crime and violence, how to diminish hate btw people, etc etc
in my opinion our whole purpose here is simply to find a role to play in a grand scheme... as far as time, i've yet to see time look as though it was gonna run out on me before i ran out on it...so i wont worry about it :thumbsup:
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#8
Wizard my theory is this. The scientists say the universe is expanding and getting cooler (because of its expansion the heat "spreads" and it gets cooler). At any point in the past, the universe was smaller and hotter than it is right now. According to the big bang theory the universe was once small like a hydrogen atom and hotter than a billion stars and it was growing very fucking fast (we're talking exponential growth in a time frame as small or smaller than 10^-40 seconds) The laws of physics were probably not the same at all under these conditions: there weren't even atoms yet, the energy around them being higher than the force holding subatomic particles togheter. (I don't know if you know this, but atoms aren't the smallest particles. They're made up of protons and neutrons who can separate if given a large amount of energy. These protons can also separate in quarks if given a huger amount of energy. We don't know if quarks can separate.) Anyways, my theory is, maybe if you go back in "time", the universe just gets smaller and smaller infinitely. Think about it this way:

(simplified version) If you cut a piece of paper into 2, then cut the half piece into 2 and so on, you'll come to an atom eventually, and if you can separate the atom with high energy, and separate what's next with even higher energy, and so on, it might be possible to go on like that forever without reaching "zero". Take a calculator and type 0.1 square, then the result square, you could theorically go on like that infinitely without ever reaching zero, although the calculator will eventually say "error" or zero. Maybe the universe is like that.. In rewind, it's just getting smaller and smaller and hotter, forever. Then as it got bigger and cooler, atoms were formed, then stars, then heavier atoms.. See what I mean.. it's hard to explain.. Now the question is, why is the universe expanding. It's fucked up =/

Also, maybe the more the universe gets small and hot, the more the time slows down, so you could never reach the zero because it exponentially slows down. Fuck, I can't explain it. Someone, help me out
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#9
Another thing (excuse the double post but I'm not editing that long ass previous post and making it even longer)

I can't conceive that the universe have been "created" because if it did, then whatever created it must have been created too, and my lousy brain can't accept that, because it would be a never ending process of creation by a higher being. To this, some will reply that God is infinite and was always there. My reply to them is, if you can accept that God was always there, you can accept that the universe was always there as well, or at least, something was there. There wasn't nothing at all and then there was something. Even if you believe in God, you have to accept that there was always something, because if God is something, then "nothing" does not exist.

conclusion : the universe was never created, (because if it did, it was created inside another universe wich was never created, because if it did, it was created inside another universe wich never was created because..you get the fucking point) It was always there.

That answer is not satisfying for our stupid brains, but it's the only logical answer because creation does not make sense.
 
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#10
whoa, rage, you just proved an entire theory wrong lol. there's this big debate over whether the universe was just always there. So you're saying there was no big bang, or was the big bang the atom expanding at that insane rate?
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#11
dull_bullet said:
whoa, rage, you just proved an entire theory wrong lol. there's this big debate over whether the universe was just always there. So you're saying there was no big bang, or was the big bang the atom expanding at that insane rate?
I'm saying there was no t (time) = 0
 
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#12
So if there is no time, then time travel is in no way possible? I'm just wondering because I have heard some people argue that time travel is possible, we just haven't figured out all the pieces yet.
 
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#14
dull_bullet said:
personally i think time travel is the stupidest idea
Actually, I would think holding an item on fire would be one of the dumbest ideas, but maybe that's just me. Sorry, I know that was kind of off topic.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#16
tiger_86 said:
So if there is no time, then time travel is in no way possible? I'm just wondering because I have heard some people argue that time travel is possible, we just haven't figured out all the pieces yet.
There is time.

But no time travel is not possible.

If you go back in time, 30,000 years ago and kill someone, do you just disappear? cause he was likely your ancestor.

Time travel is full of contradictions and is impossible.
 

Brain Spout

Wizard No More
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#17
time travel is likely not possible because of paradoxes. if you killed your ancester you would have never existed to kill them, so therefore they wouldn't have died, but if they didn't die you would have existed to kill them etc.

however, there is much we do not understand about time. i still can not accept that everything was here FOREVER. (when i say negative infinity, i simple mean that let's assume that today is year 0, or time 0). i cant possibly imagine that everything has existed forever, it just doesn't make sense. if you think about it deeply, why does any of htis exist. how can this be? i think that if there is a god this is a question that even the all knowing could not answer.