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Headlines U.S. soldier convicted in shooting death of wounded Iraqi

Jung

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http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/31/germany.us.soldier.ap/index.html

WIESBADEN, Germany (AP) -- A military court on Thursday found a U.S. Army tank company commander guilty of charges related to the shooting death of a wounded Iraqi last year.

Capt. Rogelio "Roger" Maynulet stood at attention as Lt. Col. Laurence Mixon, the head of the six-member panel, read the verdict.

The court was to reconvene later Thursday to consider Maynulet's sentence. The charge -- assault with intent to commit voluntary manslaughter -- carries a maximum of 10 years in prison.

Prosecutors had sought a conviction on a more serious charge of assault with intent to commit murder that carried a 20-year maximum.

Maynulet, 30, maintained that the man was gravely wounded and he shot him to end his suffering.

Maynulet's 1st Armored Division tank company had been on patrol near Kufa, south of Baghdad, when it was alerted to a car thought to be carrying a driver for radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and another militiaman loyal to the Shiite cleric, who led uprisings against American-led forces in Iraq last year.

They chased the vehicle and fired at it, wounding both the passenger, who fled and was later apprehended, and the driver. The killing was filmed by a U.S. drone surveillance aircraft.
Good! I knew this would be the outcome, and I'm happy with the decision. :thumbsup:
 

bigck3000

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He should go to jail...but what i dont understand is, if this killing is going to be punished....Why is any killing justified over there? Because he was wounded? So hes being punished for unsportsman like conduct?
 

DIZNUTS

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i think its stupid.....he killed him to ease his sufforing..and now he goes 2 jail...damn this place is fucked up lol
 

Boycott

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Being in Canada we have a lot of influence from America. IMO everything going on in the middle east should not be America's problem. I think a lot of the "WAR on Iraq" is for good ratings in the news, or "Operation Iraq Liberation" (OIL) is just because Bush doesn't have anything to test his 18 billion (last time I remember someone telling me the american military budget it was 18 billion or some insane number like that) weapons of mass destruction on... Odd how hypocritical he is...

Sorry, just ranting about Bush. I barely know much about the recent happenings of war on Iraq... I'm not even sure if I'd still call Bush an evil person if I read recent happenings... Probably would but I can't say that for sure seeing as I'm not as informed on the happenings... I know more about older wars etc... so I assume Bush is like Hitler (Which is barely true, I know... They had very different motives and are doing very different things...)

Bleh, getting too off topic... I should just stop now
 

Boycott

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DIZNUTS said:
i think its stupid.....he killed him to ease his sufforing..and now he goes 2 jail...damn this place is fucked up lol

If someone got shot on the street, in the leg or stomach or something, and you had the chance, would you shoot them to ease their pain? Most probably not, and if you did, you'd go to jail.
 
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junglizm said:
Actually, the Muslim religion is a very peaceful one. It's only extremist sects that are causing the problems. We do taunt them with our bullshit foreign policies though. I'm not condoning their actions, but under the same circumstances, I think we'd act in a similar manner. (For clarification, I'm not saying we'd result to terrorist actions, rather that we'd result to violence in retaliation.)

What makes me even sadder, is that people like him get the privilege to wear a honored uniform, and represent our country.
yeah i know i'm a muslim :p and that's what i meant. i meant to say that people shouldn't say that we are all radical fundamentalists just cause we are muslim. only those sects that are like "YOU'RE NOT A MUSLIM JOIN US OR DIE!!!1!one" are the ones the US are fighting. this isn't a goddamn holy war against the muslims. although the fundamentalists think otherwise....

and yeah, it's saddening to know that some of the people that are fighting don't know much about the outside world :(
 

jamesp

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Boycott said:
Being in Canada we have a lot of influence from America. IMO everything going on in the middle east should not be America's problem. I think a lot of the "WAR on Iraq" is for good ratings in the news, or "Operation Iraq Liberation" (OIL) is just because Bush doesn't have anything to test his 18 billion (last time I remember someone telling me the american military budget it was 18 billion or some insane number like that) weapons of mass destruction on... Odd how hypocritical he is...

Sorry, just ranting about Bush. I barely know much about the recent happenings of war on Iraq... I'm not even sure if I'd still call Bush an evil person if I read recent happenings... Probably would but I can't say that for sure seeing as I'm not as informed on the happenings... I know more about older wars etc... so I assume Bush is like Hitler (Which is barely true, I know... They had very different motives and are doing very different things...)

Bleh, getting too off topic... I should just stop now
actually the military budget for the USA is somewhere closer to 407 Billion, yeah choke on that. we should try donating 407 billion to cancer research, we'd have a cure next week.
 

Boycott

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jamesp said:
actually the military budget for the USA is somewhere closer to 407 Billion, yeah choke on that. we should try donating 407 billion to cancer research, we'd have a cure next week.
Exactly! Seriously, If there was a day when America just threw around money to solve certain problems (world hunger, cancer, perfect the aids vaccine[they're close]) rather than making world problems through military... We would have a quite different place to live.
+100% to Lifestyle Bonus.
 

BigTexMarine25

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what i dont get, is how iraqi's can kill americans and seemingly get away with it. but when we do it as a "mercy" killing, we are fed to the sharks. we have to be careful with how we handle certain situations with them because we have to be "politically correct". well i say bullshit! if they do something to our guys, we have every right to hunt them down like the dogs they are! if there is someone there gravely wounded and is going to die a slow painful death, i would have shot him too. it's almost like when an animal is wounded. put it out of it's misery. i dont know how many of ya'll have been over there, but there isnt a hospital on every damn corner. the inhumane thing wound have been to let him suffer. people are looking at this as if the soldier laughed at him and poked at his wounds to cause further pain or something. he did the only humane thing that could be done at that time given the situation. if you dont like the way things are being done, do something about it. join up and go see what it's like for your damn self. dont just sit there with your "hollier than thou" attitude and sit in judgment on other people when you havent a clue what goes on other than what you read in the papers or hear in the news.
 

Jung

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BigTexMarine25 said:
what i dont get, is how iraqi's can kill americans and seemingly get away with it.
Well, we did invade their country for bullshit reasons, and start bombing their homes, wives, children and families. If you think we haven't done anything to innocent Iraqi's then you're sadly mistaken.
but when we do it as a "mercy" killing, we are fed to the sharks. we have to be careful with how we handle certain situations with them because we have to be "politically correct".
"Mercy killing" is illegal, bottom line. Your personal emotions mean nothing in the midst of this conflict. I wouldn't go as far as to say politically correct, as much as it's just following rules of engagement, core values and common sense.
well i say bullshit! if they do something to our guys, we have every right to hunt them down like the dogs they are! if there is someone there gravely wounded and is going to die a slow painful death, i would have shot him too.
Did you even bother reading the article? That's just the thing, those Iraqi's did nothing more than drive by in a truck. They didn't open fire upon our soldiers, they didn't attack in anyway. That soldier clearly used excessive force and abused his power. You say you would've done the same, well fine. You would be receiving the proper punishment too. War isn't an excuse to kill everyone you see who isn't American.
it's almost like when an animal is wounded. put it out of it's misery.
Well, there are rules against it. Common sense says that broken rules, especially when concerning human life, get dealt with accordingly. Humans aren't animals to be killed when you see fit to put them out of their misery. You're nothing but a soldier, you have no authority to make that decision.
people are looking at this as if the soldier laughed at him and poked at his wounds to cause further pain or something.
If the soldier would've followed rules of engagement form the start there would've been no problem. He was wrong from the start, that makes any point you were trying to make moot.
he did the only humane thing that could be done at that time given the situation.
Well too bad that's not in a soldier's job description.
if you dont like the way things are being done, do something about it. join up and go see what it's like for your damn self. dont just sit there with your "hollier than thou" attitude and sit in judgment on other people when you havent a clue what goes on other than what you read in the papers or hear in the news.
Some people here (myself) have been there. (Afghanistan, not Iraq) I didn't act like an idiot, I did my job and I didn't go out mercy killing anyone. This war is complete bullshit, and as such I'm not a part of it, not the military anymore. I find it increasingly retarded that soldiers think the American citizens don't have the right to voice their opinions. So you're a soldier, great, do your job and nobody would have a problem. I have the utmost respect for those who serve our country, but don't think you're owed something for the decisions you've made. Most won't care anyway. Furthermore, don't be a shitty soldier and expect people to have sympathy for you.
 

bigck3000

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Not to tinge this rather glorious moment in the field of Verbal Destructions....but...OMFG!!11
 

MaxPower

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dull_bullet said:
yeah i know i'm a muslim :p and that's what i meant. i meant to say that people shouldn't say that we are all radical fundamentalists just cause we are muslim. only those sects that are like "YOU'RE NOT A MUSLIM JOIN US OR DIE!!!1!one" are the ones the US are fighting. this isn't a goddamn holy war against the muslims. although the fundamentalists think otherwise....

and yeah, it's saddening to know that some of the people that are fighting don't know much about the outside world :(
People Are fucked up. They forget that there are Christian fundamentalists as well. David Karesh (Waco), Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bomber), Most KKK, All Abortion Clinic bombers/shooters; All of them were/are Christians. They commit the same acts as those we call terrorists, and all of them do it for their cause, just like "Terrorists". But somehow we don't look at them as terrorists. Why? Simple. They don't speak a "funny" language and have a strange religion that we don't understand.

90% of it is ignorance. Bottom Line.
 

BigTexMarine25

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junglizm said:
Well, we did invade their country for bullshit reasons, and start bombing their homes, wives, children and families. If you think we haven't done anything to innocent Iraqi's then you're sadly mistaken.

"Mercy killing" is illegal, bottom line. Your personal emotions mean nothing in the midst of this conflict. I wouldn't go as far as to say politically correct, as much as it's just following rules of engagement, core values and common sense.

Did you even bother reading the article? That's just the thing, those Iraqi's did nothing more than drive by in a truck. They didn't open fire upon our soldiers, they didn't attack in anyway. That soldier clearly used excessive force and abused his power. You say you would've done the same, well fine. You would be receiving the proper punishment too. War isn't an excuse to kill everyone you see who isn't American.
Well, there are rules against it. Common sense says that broken rules, especially when concerning human life, get dealt with accordingly. Humans aren't animals to be killed when you see fit to put them out of their misery. You're nothing but a soldier, you have no authority to make that decision.

If the soldier would've followed rules of engagement form the start there would've been no problem. He was wrong from the start, that makes any point you were trying to make moot.

Well too bad that's not in a soldier's job description.

Some people here (myself) have been there. (Afghanistan, not Iraq) I didn't act like an idiot, I did my job and I didn't go out mercy killing anyone. This war is complete bullshit, and as such I'm not a part of it, not the military anymore. I find it increasingly retarded that soldiers think the American citizens don't have the right to voice their opinions. So you're a soldier, great, do your job and nobody would have a problem. I have the utmost respect for those who serve our country, but don't think you're owed something for the decisions you've made. Most won't care anyway. Furthermore, don't be a shitty soldier and expect people to have sympathy for you.
for one, i sure as hell aint so shitty army soldier........ there are rules of engagment, yes. but to what extent do you follow them? where is the line that you draw to determine when enough is enough? if you had to kill 1 person to save hundreds, would you do it? seen the movie " rules of engagment"? i know i would. you have to think of the common good........ the bigger picture. and if they were truly innocent civilians, why were they running? what do they have to hide? the innocent iraqi's are glad that the U.S. is there! they were tired of being supressed by hussein and his regime. did anyone watch the history channel on the story of hussein? all those things he was doing? torturing iraqis just for his own enjoyment. someone had to step in and say enough. the U.S. is looked at as the big brother of the world. we are looked at to look after and protect those that cant protect themselves. although i dont like the fact that we are doing things in other countries instead of our own, i cant make that call. i just have to do what i am supposed to do and believe that it is for a good cause and for reason.
 

BigTexMarine25

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MaxPower said:
People Are fucked up. They forget that there are Christian fundamentalists as well. David Karesh (Waco), Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bomber), Most KKK, All Abortion Clinic bombers/shooters; All of them were/are Christians. They commit the same acts as those we call terrorists, and all of them do it for their cause, just like "Terrorists". But somehow we don't look at them as terrorists. Why? Simple. They don't speak a "funny" language and have a strange religion that we don't understand.

90% of it is ignorance. Bottom Line.
the whole idea with terrorism is trying to achieve a political goal through violent acts. i would go as far to say that McVeigh was a terrorist because he took anger out on hundreds of innocent people, but he wasnt doing it to gain power or political standing, he was just an asshole! and not all of the "funny" language people are muslim, there are quite a few christians among them but are unable to practice it due to others killing people of that faith... a form of terrorism!
 

Jung

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BigTexMarine25 said:
there are rules of engagement, yes. but to what extent do you follow them?
That should be pretty obvious; to the extent that they're laid out. If you second guess or make up your own rules then you are wrong. Bottom line. Rationalize that however you like, it'll still land you in Leavenworth next to that guy.
where is the line that you draw to determine when enough is enough? if you had to kill 1 person to save hundreds, would you do it? seen the movie " rules of engagement"? i
I hardly see how killing that Iraqi saved the lives of many, all I see is rationalizations. No, I haven't seen that movie, not that I'd base any real life decision on a movie though.
and if they were truly innocent civilians, why were they running? what do they have to hide?
Maybe because we're invading their country and bombing their houses? Hell, I bet you'd be scared too if they invaded your home town and bombed your house...
the innocent Iraqi's are glad that the U.S. is there!
Another generalization... Some are, some aren't. The facts still show that over 90% of Iraqis consider us a occupiers rather than liberators.

they were tired of being suppressed by Hussein and his regime. did anyone watch the history channel on the story of Hussein?
You're not the only one who knows history, but we're just replacing one dictator for another; nothing has changed. Before, their own people killed and suppressed them, now foreigners are. It's really no different... Furthermore, we shouldn't be the world's police. This war is about one thing; American greed. (read: OIL)
the U.S. is looked at as the big brother of the world. we are looked at to look after and protect those that cant protect themselves.
As a reply, I'll paraphrase a quote from George Washington: "We should maintain economic ties to all countries, and entangle in alliances with none."
i just have to do what i am supposed to do and believe that it is for a good cause and for reason.
Hey, I agree with you to some extend; I've been there and done that. I personally found that I was in opposition to a lot of things I was being tasked to do, so I changed my situation. Still, and after trying to see the "bigger picture" for quite some times now, I've yet to see the good all of this is leading us to. We're only creating more enemies in this world, and pissing off our historical allies. You know there's something wrong when most of the free world is against our president. How far will we have to go until we're seen as the world's bully rather than it's big brother?

I know you're new here, so don't take any offense. I think you might find some of my previous posts interesting though. http://www.wtf.com/showthread.php?t=5526 http://www.wtf.com/showthread.php?t=6248
 
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BigTexMarine25

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You know there's something wrong when most of the free world is against our president.



in response to this one.......... it seems like no matter what, people will criticize every president there is....people were against clinton, then once he is out of the white house, people think of him as a great president and a pimp. people criticize bush now but what will they say once he is out of the white house? not to start a whole new topic, but i actually like bush except for the whole gas prices thing. i am sure that there is some stuff he could do about it. hell, he owns some oil derricks. put those babies in overdrive!
 

MaxPower

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#17
BigTexMarine25 said:
the whole idea with terrorism is trying to achieve a political goal through violent acts. i would go as far to say that McVeigh was a terrorist because he took anger out on hundreds of innocent people, but he wasnt doing it to gain power or political standing, he was just an asshole! and not all of the "funny" language people are muslim, there are quite a few christians among them but are unable to practice it due to others killing people of that faith... a form of terrorism!
I never said they were All Muslim.
Tell me the last time we waged war on a predominantly White/christian population.
Just another angle to throw in the mix. :thumbsup:

Getting back onto topic; there's no defense for this guy that has the nerve to call himself a United States Soldier. What he did was murder. End of story. No matter what his reasons, he has no legal excuse. Any respectable US service man or woman, should be outraged by his behavior. It reflects upon the decent people who joined because they believe in something. This guy was no more than a street thug with a uniform.
 

Jung

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BigTexMarine25 said:
it seems like no matter what, people will criticize every president there is....people were against clinton, then once he is out of the white house, people think of him as a great president and a pimp.
I agree, and I actually voted for and liked Clinton. He did more for our economy than anyone else has recently. I just think Bush is fighting the wrong wars, and most people tend to agree. I'm sorry, but our country has major issues. Issues that won't be resolved by invading other countries and squandering even more national funds on such pointless endeavors. That's not to even mention the lies we've been fed by this administration.... But that's a whole other thread.
MaxPower said:
Getting back onto topic; there's no defense for this guy that has the nerve to call himself a United States Soldier. What he did was murder. End of story. No matter what his reasons, he has no legal excuse. Any respectable US service man or woman, should be outraged by his behavior. It reflects upon the decent people who joined because they believe in something. This guy was no more than a street thug with a uniform.
I couldn't agree more. If this soldier did this in our country, he'd be crucified and seen as a thug. It's no different over there; he murdered an innocent man. Now, that man may or may not have been the "enemy" but he definitely did nothing deserving of the reaction he received. A good soldier understands and acts according to the rules of engagement and Genva Conventions. If you can't do that, then you're not deserving of the uniform, nor do I want you representing my country. I just fail to see how we can take the stance of "innocent until proven guilty," yet throw it out the window just because we're in another country. It's ridiculous.
 

Alliteration

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I hear more grief over someone shooting a dying Iraqi than I do the heads of contracters heads being sawn off with a large knife. There is something wrong with that.
 

DanGeo23

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** didn't read whole thread**
just thought I would add... I was on tanks when I was on active duty in the First Cav.. and I remember a butter bar we got in... right before I left... named Lt. Maynulet.... hmmm.. wonder if it is the same guy...