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Headlines USA can't pay for dominant role in the world anymore

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RedOctober

Guest
#1
Well, I read this in a serious Dutch newspaper.

The USA is on the edge of a total economical collapse.
Lending a lot of money from foreign countries.
A budget that is red as hell..

Names to Google..

Mark Weisbrot, Center for Economic and Policy Research (left wing)

Niall Ferguson, right wing historian. Literature... Colossus.

BAD NEWS:

The USA will never ever be able to repay it's debts, iven if all American citizens would pay a tax of 100%.

The USA would even be then be 45.000.000.000.000 $ short!

The article says, the facts are being withheld by the press and the media.

Ferguson (right wing) says:
"The news is so bad, that nearly nobody wants to believe it!"

And...

"It will take some time untill investors understand what is happening, and begin to sell."

That is what I read and heard here in Europe some time ago.
A Dutch electronics firm already moved slowly from the USA to the Chineese market. Get the point?

To say it very simple...

You spend far more as a nation than you can afford!
 

MaxPower

You're my number two
Staff
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#2
And we all know that if it's in a dutch newspaper, it's got to be true. :thumbsup:
 

ReiMeishin

Dreaming to live
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#3
I've been saying that for as long as I could, the US is going to buckle under its debt. However, I think there is still hope that if their government overhauls their programs that they could pay back their debt, eventually.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#4
the debt is around 7,400 000 000 000$

That's because the government pays for corporate profit. (ex: the government makes no profit in iraq, it's the coprorations that make it. But who pays for the war ? yes, the government.) I call that corruption. Dick Cheney style.
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#5
Well...
I expected some brutal reactions..
But it was quite friendly..

Europeans like America and Americans...
We just don't want you to live in a fascist shitheap.

You didn't deserve that!
 

bigck3000

The Iron Lung
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#6
i must once again pose the questions to non-americans,
why do you believe that we condone the actions of our government?
heres a little run down on a democratic republic
....we (the people) vote for officials who then make decisions by voting amongst each other. thats the ideal system but i'm rapidly losing faith in this, but regardless, we dont have a say in it after we've elected our representatives. i havent been in agreement with the government ever, this year will be my first chance to do something about it, but then again, i live in florida, so maybe not.
 

morelos

lexicon incognito
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#7
hold on one second, redoctober.

the chinese market has a huge, booming new middle class and ONE BILLION potential customers. everyone is trying to sell in china.

but i don't believe the US owes forty-five trillion dollars to any foreign lenders. i think, if anything, the US has -forgiven- more aid and loans than any nation in the history of man, even when we haven't first meddled in damaging an area.

~ dan ~
 

blw72887

Just a poster
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#8
well forget that dutch newpaper,.. err.

And I can't think of one nation that has it so great where there debt.. is non -existent in one way or the other, yes we here in America have a debt.. but whoever the hell said that, is just trying to start some bullshit :)
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#9
morelos said:
hold on one second, redoctober.

i think, if anything, the US has -forgiven- more aid and loans than any nation in the history of man, even when we haven't first meddled in damaging an area.

~ dan ~
I'm not aware of any situation where the US has just cancelled the debt of a country to ask nothing in exchange. If you have an exemple please state it
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#10
morelos said:
hold on one second, redoctober.

the chinese market has a huge, booming new middle class and ONE BILLION potential customers. everyone is trying to sell in china.
Well.. Don't forget the Chineese also have a strongly nationalistic and socialistic government.. (Yes.. You got my pont right)
They do everything to let their economic power grow.
Hurting American and European industries just by working AS PLANNED
for lower wages.
Don't be surprized when in about 5-10 years time the USS Ronald Reagan
goes shyhigh at a cerain moment.
One billion potential customers?
My ass!
Western firms already place their factories over there!
People in the western world will lose their jobs, because of the Chineese government letting her people work as slaves!


but i don't believe the US owes forty-five trillion dollars to any foreign lenders. i think, if anything, the US has -forgiven- more aid and loans than any nation in the history of man, even when we haven't first meddled in damaging an area.

~ dan ~
Well... Just look at the figures ;)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_eco_aid_don_cap

Map & Graph: Economy: Economic aid - donor (per capita) (Top 100 Countries)

Country Description Amount
1. Luxembourg $352.30 per person
2. Norway $307.95 per person
3. Denmark $302.72 per person
4. Netherlands $216.71 per person
5. Sweden $191.48 per person
6. Switzerland $150.30 per person
7. France $104.68 per person
8. United Kingdom $74.88 per person
9. Belgium $74.25 per person
10. Finland $73.01 per person
11. Ireland $72.11 per person
12. Japan $71.53 per person
13. Germany $67.96 per person
14. Austria $50.07 per person
15. Australia $45.30 per person
16. Canada $40.36 per person
17. Spain $33.07 per person
18. Portugal $26.82 per person
19. New Zealand $25.23 per person
20. United States $23.76 per person *************
21. Italy $17.24 per person

So, we Dutchies pay nearly 10 times as much as economic aid to poor countries as the Great USA! :D

GOTCHA ;)
 

morelos

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#11
per capita, sure. you also pay much higher taxes than we do, and your headcount?

netherlands: 16,318,199

united states: 293,027,571

so you're right: total aid given = (aid per capita) * (headcount)

netherlands total aid, using your figure: $3,536,316,905.29
usa total aid, using your figure: $6,962,335,086.96

last i checked, 6.9 billion dollars was almost twice as much as 3.5 billion dollars.

GOT-NOTHING.

~ dan ~
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#12
ok.. If I have a million bucks and I give you 10 dollars, am I more generous than if I have 1000 bucks and I give you 5

whatever though that's not really important anyways.. the point is, the US has a huge deficit and that's directly caused by the PNAC and the Bush administration, with their ridiculous defense spending
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#13
Well... The matter is, that Americans don't pay much taxes.
And what they pay, they see allmost nothing in return.

You pay a lot more for things like insurance and housing!
That's because you have a so called "free market". ;)

We see the same in Europe.

It's caused by the natural tendency for human beings to
go for the best profit. And so a monopoly is formed, before you have
winked your eyebrows.

Of course there is nothing on paper, or what so ever..

A nice song for Americans...

You pay too much, to stay alive!
 

MaxPower

You're my number two
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#14
RedOctober said:
It's caused by the natural tendency for human beings to
go for the best profit. And so a monopoly is formed, before you have
winked your eyebrows.
I think the term you're groping for here is "In the blink of an eye".
 

Fugly

Tenderony
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#15
RedOctober said:
Well... The matter is, that Americans don't pay much taxes.
And what they pay, they see allmost nothing in return.

You pay a lot more for things like insurance and housing!
That's because you have a so called "free market". ;)

We see the same in Europe.

It's caused by the natural tendency for human beings to
go for the best profit. And so a monopoly is formed, before you have
winked your eyebrows.

Of course there is nothing on paper, or what so ever..

A nice song for Americans...

You pay too much, to stay alive!
Do we? So the highest standard of living in the world costs to much? We created a boot strap society based on merit and hard work. Anyone has the ability to be the richest and most succesful person in the world. Anyone regardless of race or religion. and the taxes we pay go to enforcing the strongest civil rights laws ever written. Freedom isn't cheap but it's worth every cent.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#16
fugly don't be an idiot, your taxes go to a phony war instead of social issues and the point is, the US has a huge debt and I don't see how they're going to pay it
 

dustinzgirl

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#17
Rage against said:
fugly don't be an idiot, your taxes go to a phony war instead of social issues and the point is, the US has a huge debt and I don't see how they're going to pay it

We dont have to. We all own guns. Lots of them.
 

ReiMeishin

Dreaming to live
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#18
dustinzgirl said:
We dont have to (pay off the US national debt). We all own guns. Lots of them.
Now as terrible as that sounds, its hard for me to disagree with it. Who's going to force the US to pay its debts? I know Japan can't, and won't, its bad business.
 

dustinzgirl

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#19
ReiMeishin said:
Now as terrible as that sounds, its hard for me to disagree with it. Who's going to force the US to pay its debts? I know Japan can't, and won't, its bad business.
YEP we are a super power that can not feed or house all of it inhabitants. Great place to live and raise children in public schools.
 

Fugly

Tenderony
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#20
Rage against said:
fugly don't be an idiot, your taxes go to a phony war instead of social issues and the point is, the US has a huge debt and I don't see how they're going to pay it
Socialism isn't the answer. And until you find a better one I'll stick with the lowest poverty rates in the world. You talk good idealism but lets see you do something besides bitch about it. I am not a bush fan, nor am I huge fan of current economic policies but thats why presidential terms are short. 8 years means noting in the grand scheme of things. And until you bring me a sytem that works better and long term, your complaining is useless.