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Headlines Vicious circle of hate?

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#1
I got the shitty impression that the world entered a vicious circle of hate and we're stuck in it.

In Iraq and all the middle-east, more people are joining the forces of the fanatic resistance groups than we can kill; their number is growing and it's foolish to think we can win a "war on terrorism" against them by attacking sovereign governments. You will create chaos by doing this, but you will not create peace on the long term nor on the short term. We're in a vicious circle of hate situation here, the middle-east vs the west. But while Bush fights his holy war on terror confortably itching his nuts, too many civilians are dying on both sides.

After 9/11, the military budget for the US raised through the roof. But what good is that in the bogus war on terror? You CANNOT win the war on terrorism with tanks and F16's. Terrorists can be in Uk, Russia, Spain, China, USA, Canada, all over the fucking world, and what are you gonna do, kill them in Madrid or New York with a tank, or air-strike them in London? Are you gonna attack Spain because some terrorists live there? NO. You gotta BUST them, you can't bomb them and kill 5 other people in the process. I guess I'm saying, why is Bush investing so much money in the military after 9/11 even though you can't really fight terrorism with militaristic investment? The war on terror isn't about pwning them with your big ass army, yet Bush seems to make people think it is. And why does Bush talk so much against terrorism while BOMBING the same kind of PEOPLE in another country in the name of you know what (Freedom. Justice. Peace. Democracy. Bloody motherfolking rubbish.)

The elite, from both the terrorist and US side, are fucking pussies. "why do they always send the poor?" The kings from both sides used to fight in wars themselves. Now, some of the elite are people that aren't even elected (on both sides), and while enjoying being filthy rich, they set up wars in wich most of the victims are in the average, civilian class. The people can be a victim economically, they can lose their life, their arm, their family, it doesn't matter. War victims in the middle-east are as shocked as a victim of a terrorist act. Some people call it "inevitable casualties of war". But why don't they call the victims of terrorist acts "inevitable casualties of terrorism"? I call them both slaughter of innocents. Terrorism is slaughter of innocents too, but instead of being legally supported by members of the Government and Congress, it's supported and teached by fanatical religious icons. But no matter who start it all, both sides must be judged for what they have done and what they are doing, the Bush administration is guilty of human crimes as bad as any terrorist organisation in the world.

So not only has the Bush administration morgaged the US future economy by sinking the country into debt, but they have created a vicious circle of hate between them and a large part of the world.

So, what do you think.
 

Darklight

Oppressing your posts...
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#2
its ok once terrorists get nukes, then we'll have to worry...
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#3
Well, there is no hatred against muslims and christians from my side.
The Dutch managed to govern Indonesia for 300 years by showing respect for the habits in that large country.
I don't say there was never a major clash between Europeans and Indonesians, but under Indonesian law it is even worse now, like in Aceh.

The problem I have with Dutch colonialism of yesterday is, that only some families or companies had the profits from that colonialism, the Dutch people had to suffer by delivering the soldiers.
In the end there was no winner at all.
Both Dutch and Indonesians lost a lot of people in a senceless bloodshed, triggered by the Japanese occupation.

After that period the Americans wanted us to go out of Indonesia.
And the US and Japan marched in to profit from the natural resources of one of the largest, richest and most populated muslim countries in the world.

The problem they have with the Americans, is their arrogant attitude.
Also the British have that.
The absolute self rightiousness of the thief that claims to bring richness to the ones he steals from.

A great part of the world has seen communism collaps.
After that, the Americans, with Nato, switched to a new virtual enemy.
And that is islam.
Why? Because capitalism is on the brink of a collapse.
Islam is giving hope to millions of people.
You can of course laugh about that, and say that capitalism is perfect, but the world has eyes and can see what it does.

Young gifted people from the third world gets a chance to study in the west.
They have 3 choices.

1) Get rich by exploiting their knowledge in the west.
2) Get rich and powerful by exploiting their knowledge in their home country.
(For instance Pakistani nuclear project)
3) Feel angry about the western arrogance and become a terrorist.

Choice 1
Is becoming harder because of the anti-muslim mentality inspired by the 9/11 attacks. It was planned so by the Al Qaeda fruitcakes!
Muslims will be terrorized also, if they co-operate with the west.
Look at the way they killed the Egyptian ambassador last week.

Choise 2
Is also very hard. Muslim countries are always the potential target of the west. Don't forget Iraq was a relative rich and well educated country, untill some idiot got the idea to attack Iran.
Who the hell got Saddam so far to do such a stupid thing?
Henry Kissinger I presume. :D
But I know many Iraqi people tried to flee for the Iraqi regime, that was supported by the Americans too.

Choise 3
Freedom is another word for nothing left to lose.
You know the root of the word "desperado" ?
It's easy to die in a cause, if you haven't got anything to lose.
What if you compare muslim terrorists with a well organized American city-gang? The basic idea is the same. A tribe, that has his own symbols and rituals. Very hard to infiltrate!

You can't fight a war against terrorism, if you don't take away the reason behind it all. Think about that.
 
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#5
Hater808 said:
Fuck Bush :mfinger:
that had nothing to do with anything....

i wish there was a country that was able to just stay away from everything. but there really isn't so...

i don't think this so called "war on terrorism" is working very well. Ok, who am i kidding, this war on terror was a total failure. focusing more on intellegence would work alot better than blowing this shit out of...well everything and showing off our military might.
 

JLXC

WTF's Official Conspiracy Fanatic
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#6
I agree with the above. I would add that I feel Bush n Friends, those behind the scenes ones, are just setting America up for neverending war so they can profit from it for years and years to come. They care nothing about America, or Americans, they care about themselves and being rich. They are Evil, just as bad as those they claim to want to stop, maybe quite a bit worse. Americans are so fucking pussy whipped with their jobs and their houses and bills and all the bullshit of life, that they allow these evil men to kill others by the thousand, send their own poor soldiers in to die, profit from it for all to see, and do nothing. It's the Twinkie Defense in action.

America is ripe for a dictatorship. Americans would do nothing if Bush declared himself King. They'd whine, and drink more beer, but that's about it. As long as he supported ideas that the idiot majority liked, they'd accept it. All dissenters would be jailed and killed as Hippy Liberals.
 
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#7
the evidence is all there that we are heading in the direction of something totally opposite of the fabled "democracy", which existed once so long ago, but is now extinct. :thumbsdn:
 

JLXC

WTF's Official Conspiracy Fanatic
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#8
The Really sad thing is that this is one of the most important and pressing issues of our time in America, and people are just numb to it. I predict there will be more posts and time put in on this board tonight about sex and drunking and other fun but not super important things, than this one.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#9
JLXC said:
The Really sad thing is that this is one of the most important and pressing issues of our time in America, and people are just numb to it. I predict there will be more posts and time put in on this board tonight about sex and drunking and other fun but not super important things, than this one.
I agree, it's more fun to talk about boobies and drink beer. Not enough people care :thumbsdn:
 
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#10
you know what hit me as i read this thread?
that there is a lot of hatred coming from our side as well, who here actually views bush's initiatives dispassionatly?
the point is, instead of always just bitching and insulting the other side, we need to actually win them over, hearts and minds, as it were.
we need to convince people, not just preach to the choir.
 
#11
You make interesting points, some of which I actually haven't heard before (I usually hear the same old "Blood for Oil" stuff when talking to people against the war). However, I think you may be downgrading the extent to which Iraq was a threat to us. we did not attack Iraq because a few terrorist lived there but because the whole country was run by an anti American hostile regime. Sure, we didn't find the weapons (there may or may not have been weapons) but I beleive better safe than sorry. We did believe there were weapons that could possibly be used against us and we needed to go in a neutralize a possible threat to the lives of Americans and other members of the free world. The problem was not taking Iraq (In fact 70% of America supported going into Iraq) it was trying to help the Iraqis take control of their country. The 30 % that had supported the war and now are against it I quess didn't beleive that war was gonna be hard, they expected a quick fix (as modern America is so used to). But the real crime would be to take out the whole government of a country and then leave the Iraqi people to fend for themselves while some terrorist warlord guy could come in and just set up another terrible dictatorship. We stayed and did the Humane thing, and stuck through to help a people while many of our soldiers died. These soldiers have bravely sacrificed their lives to insure safety for their country and in order to help the Iraqi people, it would be like a slap in their face when people say it was for a bad cause and when nobody believes in what they are dying for. I know some soldiers and they are angry with the way this war is being covered by the media. The media focuses on the mistakes and the tragedies but does not glorify the heroism that is going on with many soldiers. Somebody winning a medal for bravery takes no media attention yet that whole prison abuse incident was all over the news.
Also you speak of killing many innocents in order to take out a few terrorists, you compare this military endevour to the terrorists' attacks on us. The terrorists bomb buildings that have innocents in them, transportation lines, etc. with no military purpose, because they are cowards and murderers. We sent troops in and targeted Saddam's troops, now we are fending off the insurgents. They are the ones that kill innocents, that hold women and children in front of them as the fire at our troops. Don't compare our military to terrorist regimes. Our soldiers are brave and fight to defend innocents. The terrorists kill and use innocents.
 

RetArt

A Rampant Vagitarian
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#12
Now dear Animal Mothar.

The regime that was sitting on Iraq was planted there mostly by US support during the Iran-Iraq war. Before Gulf I Saddam Hussein was a good friend of the US. There are documents that show that you gave him a whole lot of weapons, including biological, like anthrax and the ones used to kill the kurds.
Iraq was never a threat to the US. It only had low-range missiles. It was practically starving. USA also trained and founded Al Qaeda. They were a great group to fight the soviets in Afghanistan. It got bad when the tables turned and the shit turned on US of A because of Kuwait. See they thought Al Qaeda that they waged war on the soviets because they invaded their holy land. When US did the same they noticed no remarkable difference and so they reacted the same.

Terrorism is a long awaited son of the monoploar world, run by neo-liberal business.

911 was no justification to kill thousands and thousands. Spain didn´t do it after Madrid. Nigaragua didn´t do it after USA used terror on them. (USA was convicted on international terrorism on international court of justice, but USA vetoed the outcome. And speeded the bombings.)

war on terror is a big fat lie. It is mainly based on financial gain, showing off and collecting old debt. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NATIONAL SAFETY.
"To make war for peace is like having sex to keep your virginity"

No civil casualties? Afghanistan had 2 billion people on the starvation limit. They, and 2 billion others have disappeared as US stopped the food transports before the war.

Third world countries have no own economy. They are all forced to sell/purchase/use western goods.It is forced on them. In many countries this goes back to colonization. (India for example).


To make war for peace is like having sex to keep your virginity
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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#13
Animal Mother, you based your whole argumentation on the hypothesis that Iraq was a threat to the US. If that hypothesis is false wich I'm sure it is, all your arguments fall down.

Iraq might have been, in the worst case, a threat to Israel. And even then, not really, because Israel's army was way more powerful.

The only way they could be a threat to the US is if they had ICMBs. And to believe that Iraq had inter-continental ballistic missile technology is like saying Congo can send people on the moon.

If Bush told you Congo was a threat to the US, would you believe him? Would you support a war against Congo based on that? I don't care if the regime is hostile to the US, what are they gonna do with pea-shooters?

If you don't have ICBMs, the only way to lauch a biological/chemical/nuclear attack overseas is to own nuclear submarines. Iraq did not, in fact they did not have shit to threaten us with.
 

dustinzgirl

Banned - What an Asshat!
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#14
Hater808 said:
Fuck Bush :mfinger:

If you can not make a coherent thought and maintain a coherent, issue related discussion, I will ban you for three days. If I see this crap again, you may be perma banned. Make sense or shut up.
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
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RageAgainst said:
Animal Mother, you based your whole argumentation on the hypothesis that Iraq was a threat to the US. If that hypothesis is false wich I'm sure it is, all your arguments fall down.
Hmmm...

I don't have that perception.
He wrote a good and logic piece.

I had some contacts in the USA before the 9/11 attack, and even they pointed at Iraq as the bad guys before the 9/11 incident.
Mainly because of their hate towards President Clinton, and the fact they didn't like the way Grandpa Bush failed to take Saddam into custody after the Iraqi-Kuwait war.

From an Iraqi friend, I got the message in that period, that the Americans even were protecting the Iraqi Republican Guard right after the seaze fire, because the Americans didn't want a left sided uprise in Iraq.
Thousands of people were killed in that bloody treason by the Americans.

So the left sided Iraqi Kurds are now playing their game as a consequence.
Another stick of dynamite, of which the Americans don't know nothing avout yet. :confuse:
 

PatticusRex

Powdered Toast Man
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Bin Laden won. That is all I have to say. I believe his attack on 9/11 and the aftermath afterwards was exactly what he wanted all along. Look at the state the USA is in now. They are spending billions on their military and the war, the citizens are getting more angry at the country because of their failure in Iraq. Bin Laden effectively dealt a major blow to the USA, and it is still hurting them and they don't even know.
 

RageAgainst

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#17
RedOctober said:
Hmmm...

I don't have that perception.
He wrote a good and logic piece.

I had some contacts in the USA before the 9/11 attack, and even they pointed at Iraq as the bad guys before the 9/11 incident.
Mainly because of their hate towards President Clinton, and the fact they didn't like the way Grandpa Bush failed to take Saddam into custody after the Iraqi-Kuwait war.

From an Iraqi friend, I got the message in that period, that the Americans even were protecting the Iraqi Republican Guard right after the seaze fire, because the Americans didn't want a left sided uprise in Iraq.
Thousands of people were killed in that bloody treason by the Americans.

So the left sided Iraqi Kurds are now playing their game as a consequence.
Another stick of dynamite, of which the Americans don't know nothing avout yet. :confuse:
Maybe, but that doesn't justify an invasion :confused:
They can hate the US, but they can't hurt them at home.
 
R

RedOctober

Guest
#18
RageAgainst said:
Maybe, but that doesn't justify an invasion :confused:
They can hate the US, but they can't hurt them at home.
What invasion do you mean?

The Iraqi invasion in Kuwait?

Don't forget the Arab peninsula isn't an area with natural borders.
The British just drew some lines, that supposed to be borders.
Arabs don't give a shit about those borders.
It means nothing to them.

One of the historical important things over there is the possession of water holes. They slit your throat if you drink water without permission.
 

RageAgainst

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#19
RedOctober said:
What invasion do you mean?

The Iraqi invasion in Kuwait?

Don't forget the Arab peninsula isn't an area with natural borders.
The British just drew some lines, that supposed to be borders.
Arabs don't give a shit about those borders.
It means nothing to them.

One of the historical important things over there is the possession of water holes. They slit your throat if you drink water without permission.
nono, American invasion in 2003. Where was I.. aaah :confused: