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We got a new monitor at work.

BrIONwoshMunky

EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!
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#1
I work at a Water Plant, and we have to have a computer monitor on 24/7/365 It allows us to operate the water plant, and monitor the entire system. We had been using a 19" CRT, but the burn in was so horrendous, that while viewing any window besides the normal system map, you could see the halo of the other screen, besides the data that changed with some regularity.

So, we talk to our computer support lady person gal, who's supposed to keep our network, and all computers up and running properly. She basically just calls a local company and has them assess the situation and deal with it, and send the bill.

With this problem she has to "shop around" for prices for a monitor. She shoots us a price of $246.99. Ok fine and dandy. That was about 6 weeks ago. We just got the monitor today. It's a PolyView V17E. Hmmm... gee imagine, we got ripped off. How FREAKIN RETARDED. I told my boss I could have a monitor here in 3 days. Instead we overpay and wait 6 weeks. :thumbsup:
 

Jung

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#2
That LCD is going to 'burn in' just as bad... only faster. :thumbsup:
 

BrIONwoshMunky

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#3
To that I say. HA HA HA HA HA

I love my workplace for such technological follies.

Is there a solution?
 

Jung

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#4
BrIONwoshMunky said:
Is there a solution?
For displaying static images constantly and not having some sort of image retention? Sure; OLED.
 

Descent

Hella Constipated
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#5
BrIONwoshMunky said:
To that I say. HA HA HA HA HA

I love my workplace for such technological follies.

Is there a solution?
Yeah. Run out to CompUSA and buy a cheap-ass CRT.

I'm currently using a 6-year old Compaq MV520 CRT, 15" of pure shit. But she works like a charm.

That LCD will be fucked in six weeks. Kinda reminds me of the "WARNING TO OWNERS OF PROJECTION TELEVISIONS" message that all VCR/LaserDisc/video game manuals contained in the 90's.
 

Jung

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#6
Heh, my first 2005 had image retention after 3 days...

A cheap CRT would be better, but will eventually burn in. The only advantage of LCDs is that the image retention isn't permanent. But if you never turn the monitor off it's going to be even worse.
 
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#7
junglizm said:
For displaying static images constantly and not having some sort of image retention? Sure; OLED.
OLEDs exist?!?

i read about them a long time ago but i thought that it would be far longer until they produced them. Ive never even heard of anyone using them lol. are they a specialty thing?
 

Jung

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#8
Sure they exist, just not in the consumer market yet.

Edit: I say that, but I seem to remember a cell phone or two using them. I don't think the technology has progressed to the point of using them in large displays yet though.

Also interesting are NEDs (Nano-emmisive Displays).
 
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#9
yeah thats what i was concerned about is it availible for monitor size. wow if i could ge hands on one... 'drool'.

I m sure you know but for everyone else basically OLED is similar in size to an LCD has infinite contrast so you can get any color you can imagine with a crt style refresh rate. and believe it or not its cheaper to manufacture than LCD.

however, philips, on of the gurus of LCD TVs patended the manufacturing procedure and they plan to monopolize and maximize the LCD market for as long as possible. Then perhaps they will begin to make OLED TV and monitors.

there are different ways of making OLED but they are more expensive less foold proof etc.

sigh
 

morelos

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#10
actually, very good TFTs don't burn-in at all.

then again, very goot CRTs don't either. :p
 

Jung

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#11
morelos said:
actually, very good TFTs don't burn-in at all.
LCDs don't 'burn in,' but they do experience image retention. The pixels start to remember the image if it's displayed for too long. This happens on ALL LCDs if the picture is displayed for long enough. Like I said earlier though, it's not permanent; it will usually go away after powering the monitor down for a while.

This also has nothing to do with quality; it's the nature of the technology.

http://aftereffects.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=25497
Unlike phosphor-based displays such as CRTs and plasma flat panels, LCD displays do not suffer from permanent image burn-in resulting from the prolonged display of static images. This is widely understood as one of the key technological advantages of LCD . However, a temporary retained image may result in such displays, if a static image is displayed for a long time -- an effect known as "image sticking," or temporary image retention (TIR). This effect is not permanent, is not a degradation in overall life, and does not appear at all in typical usage. However, TIR can occur and can be considered undesirable in certain applications where 24/7 display of static images is required.

Every panel specification from every LCD manufacturer that Clarity has ever reviewed includes language about "image sticking." As such, we believe the phenomenon is common to all manufacturers, though there does appear to be some variability both within a single product line and among the various panel manufacturers.

What causes TIR and what can be done about it?

The mechanism of TIR involves the chemistry and drive signals of the LCD , where slight DC components of the drive signals for static displays induce a migration of ions in the Liquid Crystal material to one side of the LCD glass. This migration of ions, given sufficient time, will cause a slight drop in the drive voltage in the pattern of the static image, causing a temporary "ghost" of the image to stick. Thankfully, when the image is changed, these ions diffuse back into the Liquid Crystal and the "stuck" image disappears.

The process of ion migration is something like sedimentation in a wine bottle. Over time, if the wine bottle is left in the same position (a static image is displayed), sediment will appear at the bottom of the bottle (the ions). If, however, the bottle is periodically turned or shaken (a non-static image), then the sediment will remain in solution.

Unlike the burn-in exhibited in phosphor-based displays, TIR is not a permanent condition. Still, it can be problematic in certain applications. The best way to avoid the condition is to limit the amount of static content on the display. When this fix is not really an option, TIR may be avoided in a number of other ways. First, turning the display off (either by power cycle or by displaying a full black field), allows the ions to diffuse back into solution. Second, using a display "orbiter" (included as a menu selectable option in Clarity LCDs ) will unobtrusively shift the image by one pixel on a periodic basis to reduce the static nature of the image. Third -- as TIR is somewhat temperature dependent -- ensure the display is not exposed to excessive heat in the installation. Ultimately, if TIR does occur, the quickest way to drive the ions back into solution is to display a full field of black image.

The rate of TIR depends on the image pattern, the duration, the temperature, and slight variations in the LCD . Likewise, the rate of diffusion of the TIR (recovery time) also depends on these factors. Because of panel-based variability, Clarity has always designed its LCD products to accommodate modules from multiple vendors. By working with our suppliers in this way we have been able to consistently ensure the quality of our display devices. Clarity has been designing products using AM- LCDs for eight years and we have yet to see any significant downside to this robust imaging technology.

Why talk about TIR now?

From what we saw at the recent NSCA and GlobalShop tradeshows, the digital signage market is finally poised to explode. Direct view LCD display products are an excellent choice for digital signage applications. As a leader in this space and a longtime advocate of LCD technology, we're keenly focused on product quality and know from experience that the better the technology performs, the faster the market will grow.

We believe that TIR can be greatly improved if not entirely eliminated with tighter process controls implemented during the LCD panel manufacturing process. Ultimately, Clarity would like to see the LCD panel manufacturers respond to the challenge of eradicating TIR all together. In the mean time, AM- LCD remains the most reliable, longest life digital imaging technology available for large screen displays. With knowledge of the cause and effects of TIR, any objectionable effects can be avoided with prudent control of the content and the display environment, even in 24/7 applications.
 

Descent

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#13
FUCKORBEFUCKED said:
They should have gone with a TFT display.

The only bad thing that happens to them is they lose pixels.
Mine had like 3 dead ones, but two were near the taskbar. I moved my mouse cursor over an elephantitis picture on this forum, and -POOF-, the backlight kicked out.
 

Jung

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#14
FUCKORBEFUCKED said:
They should have gone with a TFT display.
They did go with a TFT, read the first post.
The only bad thing that happens to them is they lose pixels.
You're wrong, read above. In addition to dead pixels, LCDs can also experience backlight leakage and image retention.
 

FUCKORBEFUCKED

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junglizm said:
They did go with a TFT, read the first post.

You're wrong, read above. In addition to dead pixels, LCDs can also experience backlight leakage and image retention.
Good TFT displays don’t suffer image retention.

They even have developed TFT specific for there application.

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/464828/rss/589

I have replaced a 2 TFT unit that where used to monitor a sonet network.
They were never turn off and no screen saver. The only thing that happened was they lost pixels more than the manufacture specified.
 

Jung

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#16
FUCKORBEFUCKED said:
Good TFT displays don’t suffer image retention.
Yes they can. It doesn't always happen, but can and does happen on most displays. We have a $8K Phillips LCD display in our NOC that does it.
They even have developed TFT specific for there application.

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/464828/rss/589
Ok, so maybe it's been engineered around in expensive displays, but this thread was talking about a ~$200 LCD, so that's obviously moot.

Edit: That spec is also for 'Optically-Enhanced TFT' which isn't very common.
The only thing that happened was they lost pixels more than the manufacture specified.
LCDs, in general, are still succeptable to image retention. Period. ALL LCDs are succeptable to backlight leakage. Not all of them experience it, but it's a hell of a lot more common on consumer displays.