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Fringe While the "flatness" of the Earth is a matter of perspective, "time" is a straight up invention.

53V3N

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Oooh, I see. You're one of those people.

Movement doesn't exist! There is no spoon! View attachment 480
I never said movement doesn't exist. We're talking about time here. Try to keep up.

So far the argument for time's existence sounds like the argument for the existence of God (another man-made invention).

"There's a bible in every hotel room. Therefore God's existence is implied."
 

lolguy

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It's something made by the government to speed up the process in which the chemtrails take hold of our bodies.
 

RageAgainst

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I never said movement doesn't exist. We're talking about time here. Try to keep up.

So far the argument for time's existence sounds like the argument for the existence of God (another man-made invention).

"There's a bible in every hotel room. Therefore God's existence is implied."
As soon as you accept that movement exists, you must accept that time exists because the first implies the other.
Try to keep up.

Some things move faster than others. Speed is distance travelled as a function of time. Without time there can be no movement. Explain to me how there would be movement without time. Ok? Go!
 

53V3N

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As soon as you accept that movement exists, you must accept that time exists because the first implies the other.

Again, all you're saying is: "As soon as you accept that the Bible exists, you must accept that God exists because the first implies the other."


Without time there can be no movement. Explain to me how there would be movement without time. Ok? Go!
So there was no movement before we invented time? Movement merely implies force (the force that put the object into motion/the force keeping the object in motion). Your brain applies time to motion because that's what you've been told. You've been told the sun moves across the sky (which is false) and dictates the "time" of day. When in fact, we simply used that "motion" to invent the thing we call time.

If time exists outside of our invention of it, what's the formula for time?

Is there a formula for time that applies universally like the formula that describes gravity? I would think so if time were an actual universal thing (like gravity).
 

RageAgainst

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So there was no movement before we invented time? Movement merely implies force (the force that put the object into motion/the force keeping the object in motion). Your brain applies time to motion because that's what you've been told. You've been told the sun moves across the sky (which is false) and dictates the "time" of day. When in fact, we simply used that "motion" to invent the thing we call time.

If time exists outside of our invention of it, what's the formula for time?

Is there a formula for time that applies universally like the formula that describes gravity? I would think so if time were an actual universal thing (like gravity).
Object 1 and object 2 move from A to B, the former twice as fast as the latter. When an object arrives at B, both objects stop moving. Object 1 arrives at B. Both objects stop moving. Why is object 2 only half way to B? Because object 1 was moving faster and arrived to B before object 2.

It arrived before, because movement implies speed which implies time.

Again, all you're saying is: "As soon as you accept that the Bible exists, you must accept that God exists because the first implies the other."
No, that's not what I'm saying. The existence of the bible does not imply the existence of God, but the existence of movement does imply the existence of time.
 

53V3N

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It arrived before, because movement implies speed which implies time.
It arrived before because it was traveling at a different speed. Speed, velocity, motion, all use our invention of time in their formulas to describe distance but do not themselves prove the existence of time.

For example: A car is traveling at 60 miles per hour? What the fuck is an hour? It's something we arbitrarily came up with. There could just as easily be 4 hours in a day but the people that invented time here on Earth decided to break a day up into 24 blocks of "time".

No, that's not what I'm saying. The existence of the bible does not imply the existence of God, but the existence of movement does imply the existence of time.
I'm not trying to beat a dead analogy, all I'm saying is, you're taking something physical and actual (like the Bible) and using it to prove the existence of something imaginary.

Movement, we can all agree on, occurs. But we track that movement with something we came up with and called time.
 

RageAgainst

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It arrived before because it was traveling at a different speed. Speed, velocity, motion, all use our invention of time in their formulas to describe distance but do not themselves prove the existence of time.

For example: A car is traveling at 60 miles per hour? What the fuck is an hour? It's something we arbitrarily came up with. There could just as easily be 4 hours in a day but the people that invented time here on Earth decided to break a day up into 24 blocks of "time".
So you're confusing time and measurement of time.

The object arrived before because it's going faster. But the mere fact that you said "before" implies that there is time. How could something happen "before" something else if there was no time?
 

53V3N

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So you're confusing time and measurement of time.

The object arrived before because it's going faster. But the mere fact that you said "before" implies that there is time. How could something happen "before" something else if there was no time?
I'm not saying the invention of time does not exist (or that it's not useful), I'm just saying we invented it.
 

53V3N

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But I just did. Object 1 arrived to B before object 2.
But that is a man made example to describe a man made invention. Nothing has been proved.

Let's remove the arbitrary "destination" for a moment and discuss two objects moving in nature at different speeds.

The cheetah, for example, moves faster than its prey and tackles it to the ground.

Nature would simply say, "The cheetah was faster". It's only man that would apply his invention of time and say of the same observation, "The cheetah was moving at 45 mph and the gazelle only at 40 mph and therefore "time" was not on the gazelle's side".

Again, I'm not saying the invention of time does not exist, I'm simply saying it does not exist in nature on its own. It's an invention that we created and has been around for so LONG (omg, a reference to time) that we believe it without question.
 

RageAgainst

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But that is a man made example to describe a man made invention. Nothing has been proved.

Let's remove the arbitrary "destination" for a moment and discuss two objects moving in nature at different speeds.

The cheetah, for example, moves faster than its prey and tackles it to the ground.

Nature would simply say, "The cheetah was faster". It's only man that would apply his invention of time and say of the same observation, "The cheetah was moving at 45 mph and the gazelle only at 40 mph and therefore "time" was not on the gazelle's side".

Again, I'm not saying the invention of time does not exist, I'm simply saying it does not exist in nature on its own. It's an invention that we created and has been around for so LONG (omg, a reference to time) that we believe it without question.
Cheetah races a fat lady from A to B. He runs to B, comes back to A, runs to B again, comes back to A and back to B again at the same time the fat lady crosses the line. Cheetah is 5 times faster than the fat lady. This is a quantifiable fact. The distance traveled by the Cheetah while you say "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood" will be 5 times higher than the fat lady. It doesn't matter which measurement you use. If the cheetah does 50 meters per "woodchuck could chuck wood" then the lady does 10. If the cheetah runs 100 meters during an elephant fart then the lady will have ran 20 meters.

Measurements aren't important. The invention of time measurements does not exclude the existence of time.
 

53V3N

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Cheetah races a fat lady from A to B.
But again, you're creating an arbitrary destination (B) which does not exist in nature in an attempt to prove something else that does not exist in nature (time).

Let's take this in a simpler direction as I feel these examples may be running us in circles.

If I were debating the existence of gravity, I'm sure many would have posted a myriad of links to the universal law of gravity (complete with formulas that proved our understanding of the universal law).

How about an accepted and understood formula for time. Link?
 

RageAgainst

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But again, you're creating an arbitrary destination (B) which does not exist in nature in an attempt to prove something else that does not exist in nature (time).
lolwut? I clearly just demonstrated that time existed. And I don't understand I you could possibly not understand that movement necessarily implies time. You're trolling.

I mean (B) could be a tree which exists in nature. Fuck. Troll. Bye.
 

53V3N

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lolwut? I clearly just demonstrated that time existed. You're trolling.

I mean (B) could be a tree which exists in nature. Fuck. Troll.
And yet you can't prove time exists without a made up story. And even your made up story only IMPLIES the existence of time.

I don't need a made up story to prove gravity exists.
 

RageAgainst

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And yet you can't prove time exists without a made up story.

I don't need a made up story to prove gravity exists.
If time does not exist, something cannot happen before something else.

There needs to be an initial force applied to an object (see Newton) for it to move. There is an initial force first, and then the object moves. If something cannot happen before something else, things cannot move.

If time exists, things can move.

Things move. Time exist.

What do clocks measure? Penis?
 

RageAgainst

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I was waiting for some dolt to try and prove time via the existence of clocks.

Just didn't imagine that dolt would be you.
I never did that. When did I do that? Before or after this very post?

So anyways, you're trolling. kk bye
 

53V3N

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I'm honestly not trolling.

Simply waiting for someone to prove the existence of time outside of the man made invention that it is.

I don't mind waiting. I've got a book.