WTF ... IS WTF!?
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Fringe While the "flatness" of the Earth is a matter of perspective, "time" is a straight up invention.

Centered

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The units measurement are man made, yes, but time does exist, if even just in our experience of our universe. And what exists outside of our experience? Is any of it real at all?
 

53V3N

The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Again*, I shall use gravity as an example.

If I had started this thread saying gravity was an invention, well, the thread would probably be closed but before it was closed there would be links to accepted information on the existence of gravity (and the formula that describes it) beyond our solar system. All the data would match as we've tested and researched the effects of gravity throughout our known universe to the point of creating a formula that dictates what we should see when observing gravity regardless of our location.

It wouldn't be a thread full of made up stories that imply the existence of gravity.

We've been lead to believe that there is a beginning, middle, and end to each story as we are built on stories and yet all our universe has shown us is a beginning.

Remove yourself and your human thinking from the equation for a moment and step out into space. Place yourself anywhere. All you will see is motion.

Place yourself at the Big Bang. Again, all you will see is motion. It's all swirly whirly in all directions and Heisenberg told us we can't accurately track it anyway so how shall a winner of an arbitrary goal help us prove this thing we call time?

Time does not exist at this level. It is we that applied it to motion.

I'm seriously not trolling. I just don't see where time was before we created it through observation of motion. I can see where gravity was before we observed and quantified it but not time.

*I'm not saying "again" like, "OMG I HAVE TO SAY THIS AGAIN!?!?", I'm saying it again because I honestly think it's a good analogy.

I totally get that you guys think I'm trolling you which is why I would much prefer having this conversation in a bar. Preferably visiting Rage as they have really good beer on tap in Canada. In real life I doubt my side of the story sounds like I'm trolling.

I honestly don't see where time is outside of my mind.
 

skroo'd

I don't remember you either.
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I honestly don't see where time is outside of my mind.
How does gravitational time dilation fit in? If a person on Earth and a person in orbit experience a measured second in the same way, yet the seconds are not equal, doesn't that mean time is something beyond just our way of quantifying it?
 

RageAgainst

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I'm honestly not trolling.

Simply waiting for someone to prove the existence of time outside of the man made invention that it is.

I don't mind waiting. I've got a book.
I am a mortal. I will die one day, and that moment is not before this very instant, but after. I have not died yet, I will die in the future.

The very notion of before and after, past and future requires time to make sense. You talked about the big bang. Did that occur before or after the moment you're reading this? If you reply with either, then time has to exist.
 

53V3N

The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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I am a mortal. I will die one day, and that moment is not before this very instant, but after. I have not died yet, I will die in the future.

The very notion of before and after, past and future requires time to make sense. You talked about the big bang. Did that occur before or after the moment you're reading this?
But you're applying this notion of time to the transformation of your body. We develop and decay like everything else but that's still just movement. The passage of time during this process is our own application.
 

RageAgainst

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But you're applying this notion of time to the transformation of your body. We develop and decay like everything else but that's still just movement. The passage of time during this process is our own application.
I give up.
 

dull_bullet

Lay out!
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How about an accepted and understood formula for time. Link?
Time is fundamental. Asking for an equation for time is like asking for an equation for length. It doesn't make any sense. it's just a basic property of the universe. Space (length) and time are fundamentally related, as RA has been trying to say. Time exists, the only "invention" is our arbitrary measurement of it.
 

vistascan

They're out to get me
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He's confusing the active and potential properties of time. Before humans existed, it can be argues that time was in a potential state, it still existed, as movement existed, but no one had called it that. Only when somebody managed to see that movement implied time that we managed to name it and come up with a measure for it, thus giving it an active property.
 

-=iNsANe=-ADJ

I once ate broccoli
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Do you have money? Yes? Time is money, time exists. WIN
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Being serious, time exists as we are rational. Asking my dog, she doesn't know how far is the park nor knows how long does it takes to go there, it's like that for her. We humans look at things, we analyze and consider them, reaching conclusions, and we can even manage abstract concepts to reach those conclusions.
You see a field, yet is space, and you may need to know how much space it is to plan your actions. The same goes with time which is abstract, you feel it flowing because of changes and cycles. Then, the human being started to measure it - the beginning of the end, we all agree.
 

EvilDadII

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V3N has a point. It's not simply a matter of measuring an interval between A and B. Even by our own man-made definitions, all measurements require a known constant and fixed reference. If it can't be determined with absolute certainty that a particular reference is fixed and unchanging, all measurements using that reference are invalid. We created our own references based on assumptions made as a result of what we've perceived, learned, and understood. If these assumptions are incorrect, then any theories created using these references become in question.

I agree that if we decide in OUR universe that time means blah blah blah, then that's what it means to us. However, if as V3N suggests, we imagine stepping out of our universe, complete with its man made references and preconceived notions, time may not have any meaning at all - and my above discourse becomes a crock of shit as well.
 

Phrackd

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the only reason why time can even be considered to exist is due to our perception. but no time does not exist. if we did not percieve events, nor measure their passing with chronological numbering, everyday would be the same day with differing conditions. we have to admit seasons change due to our eliptical hurdling around the sun, but hey what do i know.
 

Avidity

Definitaly not an illuminati agent. Move along.
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Time is simply the 4th dimension to the universe. It is the dimension which exists as a ubiquitous point throughout.
According to mathematics, Time itself is two dimensional. Space-Time is four-dimensional.
 

TheVnl865

Fresh Meat
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Time, eternity, lunch break, happy hour............................

Really it can give you a headache.
 

Avidity

Definitaly not an illuminati agent. Move along.
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But you're applying this notion of time to the transformation of your body. We develop and decay like everything else but that's still just movement. The passage of time during this process is our own application.
But what is motion? How do you measure it? Motion can only occur if time exists to allow a referenc from point A to point B. Without time, motion cannot happen much like without a Z axis, three dimensions cannot be achieved.

Time might be relative, but relativity doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

True. Though I tend to look at spacetime from a 5th and 6th dimensional perspective.
I like this response:
 

ryunp

Keyboard Jockey
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Physics is intense.

Time is measured by the impulse of electric rhythm travelling through our brain, to which our senses are updating. I've always wondered how the world's sense of time would shift if our chemical makeup slightly deviated. But it sounds like you're going deeper.

:deepereyes:

Get a visual sense of Black holes, which helps get a sense of light, here: http://jila.colorado.edu/~ajsh/insidebh/intro.html

The concept of Event Horizon is incredible.

http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/singularity.html#r=1 said:
At exactly 1 Schwarzschild radius, the horizon, the Schwarzschild surface. The point of no return.
An observer outside the black hole cannot see us beyond this point - we would appear to take an infinite amount of time to pass through, becoming slower and more redshifted as time goes by. But from our own point of view space and time continue normally.
The small white dot indicates our point of entry through the horizon. Remarkably, the Schwarzschild surface, the red grid, still appears to stand off at some distance ahead of us. The white dot is actually a line which extends from us to the Schwarzschild surface still ahead, though we only ever see it as a dot, not as a line. The dot-line marks the formation of the Schwarzschild bubble (see below), and our entry into that bubble. Persons who fell through the Schwarzschild surface at this precise point before us would lie arrayed along this dot-line. At this instant, as we pass through the horizon into the Schwarzschild bubble, we see all the other persons who passed through this location before us also pass through the horizon into the bubble.
Check out this cool bit on time distortion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity#How_far_can_one_travel_from_the_Earth.3F said:
How far can one travel from the Earth?
Since one can not travel faster than light, one might conclude that a human can never travel further from Earth than 40 light years, if the traveler is active between the age of 20 and 60. One would easily think that a traveler would never be able to reach more than the very few solar systems which exist within the limit of 20-40 light years from the earth. But that would be a mistaken conclusion. Because of time dilation, a hypothetical spaceship can travel thousands of light years during the pilot's 40 active years. If a spaceship could be built that accelerates at a constant 1g, it will after a little less than a year be traveling at almost the speed of light as seen from Earth. Time dilation will increase his life span as seen from the reference system of the Earth, but his lifespan measured by a clock traveling with him will not thereby change. During his journey, people on Earth will experience more time than he does. A 5 year round trip for him will take 6½ Earth years and cover a distance of over 6 light-years. A 20 year round trip for him will land him back on Earth having traveled for 336 Earth years and a distance of 314 light years. A full 40 year trip at 1 g will appear on Earth to last 58,000 years and cover a distance of 55,000 light years. A 40 year trip at 1.1 g will take 148,000 Earth years and cover about 140,000 light years. This same time dilation is why a muon traveling close to c is observed to travel much further than c times its half-life (when at rest).[28]
 

Culito

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You guys are getting in way too deep. The work has already been done for you, by the band Anthrax, way back in 1990:


As you can see, they also went on to prove its "persistent" nature.
Now go get a beer and tell some dick jokes or something.