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Fringe While the "flatness" of the Earth is a matter of perspective, "time" is a straight up invention.

juggernaut

Stop ASKING Me!
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This thread's a gem, I'm with 53V3N.

"Inches" and "gallons" aren't universal laws or forces of physics, either. Inventions of man.

Damn convenient, though.
 

MyWay

Hey, it's that one guy.
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If time were an invention, we could change it, alter it, add more or take from it. This we cannot do, and this is the only thing that cannot be changed by humans, or anything we know of. Perspective of time is, however, an invention used for relevance.
 

juggernaut

Stop ASKING Me!
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If time were an invention, we could change it, alter it, add more or take from it. This we cannot do, and this is the only thing that cannot be changed by humans, or anything we know of. Perspective of time is, however, an invention used for relevance.
It's no problem to change time.

I say a minute should last 80 seconds. IF enough people agree, a minute is 80 seconds. Our unit of "time" has changed but the universe rolls on.

Likewise if I get enough people to agree, an inch can be considered as 15 millimeters. In this case the actual number of inches in the ruler will ahve changed, but the numbers on it will have not. The bitch is we'd have to stay on and argue over whether the ruler was still a foot long or not.
 

Avidity

Definitaly not an illuminati agent. Move along.
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It's no problem to change time.

I say a minute should last 80 seconds. IF enough people agree, a minute is 80 seconds. Our unit of "time" has changed but the universe rolls on.

Likewise if I get enough people to agree, an inch can be considered as 15 millimeters. In this case the actual number of inches in the ruler will ahve changed, but the numbers on it will have not. The bitch is we'd have to stay on and argue over whether the ruler was still a foot long or not.
Time and measurement thereof are two different. things. Time exists regardless of how it is measured much like how both a gallon and liter exist. The mass is there regardless of how we quantify it.

(Edited for typos)~Avidity
 
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juggernaut

Stop ASKING Me!
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Time and measurement thereof are tow different. things. Time exists regardless of how it is measured much like how both a gallon and liter exist. The mass is there regardless of how we quantify it.
That's the beauty of it. The progression of things isn't really "time".

A gallon doesn't really exist. A gallon jar isn't really "a gallon" it's a representation. The mass is there but it isn't a gallon unless we quantify it as such. And even then there are countries around the world quantify that differently from my local "norms".

"Time" IS a system of measurement. As such, sure it exists. But it's not a thing it's a concept, and it's mutable. A human invention, and the system we use is only logical in a relatively local context. And while we're all moving at basically the same speed through what's now being referred to as "space-time".

Because "time" was sort of bullshit as an immutable thing, or a law. We can do things now that defy our ability to measure them. It's still an incredibly useful social construct, but now it's about minutes and hours and sharing a frame of reference for the progression of things.

I understand the relationship to movement that we've observed and call "time" but I don't see evidence of time itself.
There is no manifestation of the progression of things (that we can yet measure) except, well, the progression of things. In the most pedantic sense we're not even sure if things are progressing or regressing. Perhaps we're all hurrying back towards our inevitable beginning.

I'm not even a fan of chopping my progression of things into little bits and giving them names. Maintaining this social construct is a huge waste of my ability to cause things to progress.

Like I said, a real gem :)
 
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Avidity

Definitaly not an illuminati agent. Move along.
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That's the beauty of it. The progression of things isn't really "time".

A gallon doesn't really exist. A gallon jar isn't really "a gallon" it's a representation. The mass is there but it isn't a gallon unless we quantify it as such. And even then there are countries around the world quantify that differently from my local "norms".

"Time" IS a system of measurement. As such, sure it exists. But it's not a thing it's a concept, and it's mutable. A human invention, and the system we use is only logical in a relatively local context. And while we're all moving at basically the same speed through what's now being referred to as "space-time".

Because "time" was sort of bullshit as an immutable thing, or a law. We can do things now that defy our ability to measure them. It's still an incredibly useful social construct, but now it's about minutes and hours and sharing a frame of reference for the progression of things.

There is no manifestation of the progression of things (that we can yet measure) except, well, the progression of things. In the most pedantic sense we're not even sure if things are progressing or regressing. Perhaps we're all hurrying back towards our inevitable beginning.

I'm not even a fan of chopping my progression of things into little bits and giving them names. Maintaining this social construct is a huge waste of my ability to cause things to progress.

Like I said, a real gem :)
Time isn't a measurement. Time is a thing. How we measure it is something different. We measure time through seconds and minutes and whatnot, but this does not alter the existence of time itself.

We also measure space with distance. Regardless of if I measured it in miles, kilometers, attoparsecs, or fat furries, space is still there. The space between us and the sun is quite apparent and real. We are not incinerated by being immediately adjacent to a sphere of fiery fusion.
 

RageAgainst

Chaotic Neutral
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Perhaps we're all hurrying back towards our inevitable beginning.
And perhaps you will, one day, almost instantly turn into a goat by pure chance, because there is one chance in over a googolplex that the physical circumstances of your local environment would cause it through a series of extremely improbable events

But NO.
 
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Reactions: Avidity

devlon

Banned - What an Asshat!
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I know this post is old, but a goodie. I think the problem is we use the the word time for to many different things that is directly related.

When asking what time is it? We are really referring to is a spatial coordinates on a fixed "timeline"(for lack of a better word). It is said that we leave in a 4 dimensions. If this were entirely true. Then I would expect to move foward and backwards in time at will. Just like jumping up and down. Or moving left to right. All things would happen at the same moment.

I would say that 53v3n is right that time is another tool that we use to navigate physically.

Formulas. Gravity still worked before newton had a formula doesn't mean it didn't exist just that we were incapable of the math to,produce a formula.
 

Comedown

Tenderony
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The first thing that came to mind after reading this thread was, "wtf did I just read that?"

The second thing was a refute on your claim that gravity is a thing but time is not because we have derived from mathematics, formulas to explain gravity's behavior.

In the exact same way that you claim that time, or at least the measurement there of, is a mere invention of humans with no natural basis, could not the same be said of the numbers and mathematical theory that allows our explanation for gravity to exist? (Pythagoras and the Pythagoreans actually believed that numbers did, indeed, "exist" in the natural world as more than a creation of man, but when you begin to consider irrational and imaginary numbers, this ideology becomes far less viable.)

So, by your logic, nothing "exists". Does communication exist? After all, language is a thing that was created by man in order to communicate, and by extension of that statement, even something physical, like "oxygen" does not exist in the world as anything more than a man-made word.

To quote V3N:
*Speed, velocity, motion,* all use our *invention of time* in their formulas to describe *distance* but do not themselves prove the existence of *time.*
[emphasis added]
Newton's laws all use our invention of numbers in their formulas to describe potential energy but do not themselves prove the existence of gravity.

I'm not offering an opinion either way here. I'm offering that your primary argument is invalid.
 

Wicked

Pay fucking attention.
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First of all the shit ain't linear. Time is more of a field then a measurment. Tricky conversation since we have to go quantum mechanics on this one and you fuckers are talking about things like Newton's laws and someone asking 'what time is it', which is only relative to our physical position and state of consciousness, while we are 'alive'.